Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Siguza (siguza@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:37:51 JST Siguza

   Gmail has once again blacklisted my mail server because of the SIX emails I have sent in the entirety of December so far, because obviously that constitutes "an unusual rate of unsolicited mail".

   I set up SPF, DKIM, DMARC, first get lumped in with a bad /24 IP block, slowly build up a reputation as a non-spammy IP, etc. etc., but none of that matters.

   This is nothing but a racketeering scheme to force everyone to pay for Gmail for business.

   • Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Cryptoparty Köln-Bonn (cryptoparty@bonn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:38:19 JST Cryptoparty Köln-Bonn

     in reply to

     @siguza It looks like other people are facing the same issue https://cfenollosa.com/blog/after-self-hosting-my-email-for-twenty-three-years-i-have-thrown-in-the-towel-the-oligopoly-has-won.html

   • Embed this notice
     decibyte (decibyte@social.data.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:38:38 JST decibyte

     in reply to

     • Jay Lanagan

     @jloc0 @siguza I've arrived at the extremist standpoint that we should all actively "defederate" from Big Email. They screw with us, we give them the middle finger, building a better internet without them.

   • Embed this notice
     Jay Lanagan (jloc0@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:38:41 JST Jay Lanagan

     in reply to

     @siguza the way I see it at this point is, google is doing me the favor of not communicating with any users of google services. Which was kinda the goal of running my own mail server (avoiding google). If people want to use gmail, they won’t be communicating with me. I’ve no issue getting/sending mail with any reputable company, just google. 🤷♂️

     Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     decibyte (decibyte@social.data.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:38:55 JST decibyte

     in reply to

     • Jay Lanagan

     @jloc0 this artwork, from The Prodigy's album Music for the Jilted Generation, for some reason came to my mind:

   • Embed this notice
     Jay Lanagan (jloc0@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:38:56 JST Jay Lanagan

     in reply to

     • decibyte

     @decibyte i honestly 100% agree with this.

     Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     🌱 Ligniform :donor:​ (ligniform@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 18:39:08 JST 🌱 Ligniform :donor:​

     in reply to

     @siguza google making the web harder for individuals to use as they want, forcing them to use their own products???? Never

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:08 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:
     @selea @siguza do any of the major providers (Google, outlook, ???) deliver over IPv6? When we turned on v6 at the ISP I worked at we had to remove it from all our MX because of this same issue -- v4 is blessed because of a long history of sender reputation, v6 is permanently on the naughty list
   • Embed this notice
     :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:11 JST :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     in reply to

     @siguza

     Sending emails over IPv6 has always been tricky, and the screenshot perfectly describes it.

     How long ago did you enable IPv6?

   • Embed this notice
     Siguza (siguza@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:12 JST Siguza

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     @selea I like how this is literally the email version of judging people by the colour of their skin.

     Again, this is not a technical problem. I've attached the message I got from gmail below. They tell me they've received "an unusual rate of unsolicited mail originating from your SPF domain". They're lying. I checked my outgoing mail logs, this was the first email sent to gmail in over 2 weeks. And anything trying to send in my name but not going through my mail server should surely fail due to SPF and DKIM.

     This is not a technical problem, it's a corporate politics problem where Gmail doesn't like any party that isn't paying them. There's hundreds of thousands of cases of this on the net, and the one "solution" that works for people is paying some big email provider.

   • Embed this notice
     :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:14 JST :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     in reply to

     @siguza

     That's great, just asked since it was not mentioned in the original post.

     Personally, chopsing the right ISP/Hosting provider is the most crucial part of mail-server hosting. Since basically everything boils down to how "clean" the subnet are

   • Embed this notice
     Siguza (siguza@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:16 JST Siguza

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     @selea you mean rDNS? Yes ofc. When I enabled IPv6 on my server and got 10 addresses assigned, email delivery failed immediately because I had only set it up for the first IP, so I had to fix that then and there.

     But I've been able to send mail to Gmail for many years, though this isn't the first time I've been banned for absolutely no reason. This is not a technical issue.

   • Embed this notice
     :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:30:18 JST :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     in reply to

     @siguza

     PTR is correct too?

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:57:25 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:
     @siguza @selea you can reach them, but I'm asking if they typically send email outbound over IPv6 by default. They certainly don't like it when you use it to deliver to *them*.
   • Embed this notice
     Siguza (siguza@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 22:57:26 JST Siguza

     in reply to

     • feld
     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     @feld @selea the DMARC reports I get are mixed between IPv4 and IPv6. Sometimes only one type, sometimes both. So yeah, I'm pretty sure I can reach them over IPv6.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 23:05:29 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:
     @siguza @selea so they're hypocrites as suspected 😵💫
   • Embed this notice
     Siguza (siguza@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 23:05:30 JST Siguza

     in reply to

     • feld
     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     @feld @selea

     connect from mail-ej1-x643.google.com[2a00:1450:4864:20::643]
     connect from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com[2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]

     So yes, they do initiate over IPv6 themselves.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 23:11:50 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:
     @selea @siguza this mirrors my past experience, but I've been away from email related duties for probably 7 years now.
     
     Sad to see nothing has changed...
   • Embed this notice
     :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Dec-2023 23:11:51 JST :debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld

     Indeed they are.
     This is the reason I stopped delivery over IPv6 to google and microsoft.
     I suspect that they dont trust ipv6-networks that much since basically everyone can get their own range for free.

     IPv4-only seems to do the trick (atleast for me and the orgs I have worked for)

     @siguza