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   🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 24-Nov-2023 16:08:28 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   Reminder: logic and reasoning is **not** the determination of the truth. It is about defining the relationships between the truthfulness of separate statements. That is all.

   #Philosophy #Logic #PredicateLogic

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     Free Peoples Free Press (freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 24-Nov-2023 20:23:31 JST Free Peoples Free Press

     in reply to

     @freemo

     "Reminder: logic and reasoning is **not** the determination of the truth. It is about defining the relationships between the truthfulness of separate statements. That is all."

     Dear Dr. Freemo: I would argue that people who have attained adequate and sufficient competent seasoned logic and reasoning skills would be able to reasonably employ or utilize such mental tools to be able to attempt to define the relationship between the truthfulness of separate statements via learned psychological mental disciplined meticulous examinations of such statements in question. Defining the relationships between the truthfulness of separate statements must be an evidenced based probative inquiry process.

     I would further argue that a trained mind would be more adept at unearthing the truth. There must be reliable accurate authoritative intersections of correlated reference points in which to rely upon in order to definitively factually determine the relationships between the truthfulness of separate statements in question.

     #Philosophy #Logic #PredicateLogic

     Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2023 01:18:45 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Free Peoples Free Press

     @freepeoplesfreepress We are talking formal logic here so there are some very specific things to keep in mind.

     Formal logic deals with axioms, and logical operations on them. So while it can bring implicit information from the axioms out as explicit information logic itself can not define the axioms nor can it determine the truthfulness of those axioms.

     Therein lies the crux, it can only tell you the relationship between some assumptions and what it might tell you about other things it doesnt directly state. But it relies on assumptions.

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     Free Peoples Free Press (freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2023 03:43:14 JST Free Peoples Free Press

     in reply to

     @freemo

     "We are talking formal logic here so there are some very specific things to keep in mind."

     "Formal logic deals with axioms, and logical operations on them. So while it can bring implicit information from the axioms out as explicit information logic itself can not define the axioms nor can it determine the truthfulness of those axioms."

     Axiom: a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true.
     "the axiom that supply equals demand"

     Dear Dr. Freemo: I am starting to comprehend and understand the lucidity of your written statements before me.This seems so abstract, this seems to be the abstract study of propositions and statements, to me, this seems to be more of a mathematical operational model, I was a poor student in mathematical operations related to equations. I do understand deductive reasoning, so we are operating on unknown and also known value states, so we can apply this discipline(s) in a nearly total vacuum of impartiality.

     "Therein lies the crux, it can only tell you the relationship between some assumptions and what it might tell you about other things it doesnt directly state. But it relies on assumptions."

     So if I am correct, we are drawing inferences from relationships, which allows us to make assumptions, I would think that our own biases could contaminate and alter the results in seeking the truth.

     You are stating the process and I am attempting to decode what the process entails in laypersons terms. Much like what a news journalist is supposed to do in order to properly broadcast and disseminate accurate, confirmed and verifiable data and information to diverse audiences.

     So if I am correct, this is an abstract process that utilizes many variables, so axioms could be considered to be known values of confirmed and verified truths. Assumptions would then be considered argumentative and speculative conclusions indirectly derived from the relationships of such propositions and statements. So we are essentially operating in shorthand on things in question; question is this similar to algebraic logic?

     I find this to be truly fascinating, I hope that I am understanding what knowledge you are trying to convey or impart to me.

     #FormalLogic

     Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2023 04:41:11 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Free Peoples Free Press

     @freepeoplesfreepress

     Dear Dr. Freemo: I am starting to comprehend and understand the lucidity of your written statements before me.This seems so abstract, this seems to be the abstract study of propositions and statements, to me, this seems to be more of a mathematical operational model

     Yes it is a bit abstract… in fact the formal term as you hint at is “prepositional logic”… and in fact specifically “First order prepositional logic”. Its very similar to logic in computer programs… it doesnt care if they conclusion is true, only that it satisfies the rules :)

     Math is little more than formalized logic so yea it is a mathematical model, but as with much of math this was bore out from philosophy… In philosophy it deals closely with the idea of Ontologies, which has also been formalized in math (ontologies are the vocabulary we use to describe prepositional logic).

     So if I am correct, we are drawing inferences from relationships, which allows us to make assumptions, I would think that our own biases could contaminate and alter the results in seeking the truth.

     In formal logic biases can not pollute the system in how you reason about it but may pollute the system in terms of the axioms you bring (which is outside the logic itself and harps back to my point)… Let me give an example.

     Only animals have horns.(axiom)

     All unicorns have horns. (axiom)

     All things with horns can stab you in the face. (axiom)

     Therefore all unicorns are animals and can stab you in the face. (inference, an act of making the implicit explicit)

     This is perfectly valid logic, even though unicorns dont actually exist the logic above is valid. It in no way deals with truth and only deals with extracting the implicit out of the explicit.

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     Free Peoples Free Press (freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2023 06:16:08 JST Free Peoples Free Press

     in reply to

     @freemo

     Dear Dr. Freemo: I am starting to comprehend and understand what you are trying to teach me. It is starting to make some sense, I still do not totally grasp everything, I am only at the baby stage of just starting to grasp the rudimentary ideas. So I guess I should study formal logic as a starting point. Yes Dr. Freemo you have been successful in teaching me different things which I am grateful for. This is causing me to expend considerable amount of intense focused psychological mental energy to attempt to learn.

     “This is perfectly valid logic, even though unicorns dont actually exist the logic above is valid. It in no way deals with truth and only deals with extracting the implicit out of the explicit.”

     So formal logic could be considered a pure analytical framework process that remains itself to be intact, untainted and free from any outside influences.

     “Yes it is a bit abstract… in fact the formal term as you hint at is “prepositional logic”… and in fact specifically “First order prepositional logic”. Its very similar to logic in computer programs… it doesnt care if they conclusion is true, only that it satisfies the rules :)”

     This makes sense, logic is then based on inherent designed strict order of rules. So logic is devoid of psychological emotional reactiveness. So a computer program would ultimately rely upon specific built-in routine program parameters of logic in order to initiate the execution of action(s), only if certain inherent built-in programming condition(s) are met. So we as human beings utilize similar learned behavioral psychological conditioning in order to employ “First order prepositional logic.”

     #FormalLogic #PrepositionalLogic

     Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 25-Nov-2023 06:22:53 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Free Peoples Free Press

     @freepeoplesfreepress

     Dear Dr. Freemo: I am starting to comprehend and understand what you are trying to teach me. It is starting to make some sense, I still do not totally grasp everything, I am only at the baby stage of just starting to grasp the rudimentary ideas. So I guess I should study formal logic as a starting point. Yes Dr. Freemo you have been successful in teaching me different things which I am grateful for. This is causing me to expend considerable amount of intense focused psychological mental energy to attempt to learn.

     Teaching people and passing on the expertise it took a lifetime to learn is probably one of the most important things I can do, so I am happy to hear this.

     So formal logic could be considered a pure analytical framework process that remains itself to be intact, untainted and free from any outside influences.

     Yes, well unless we consider the axioms “outside influence”.. but yes. Like with a lot of math it is objective, 1+1=2 regardless of your opinions. “if i have one unicorn and another comes over then I have 2 unicorns” this is true regardless of if i actually have unicorns or not. In fact you can say math as a whole doesnt try to tell you if something is true, it only tries to tell you 1) the relationship between things and 2) if there is internal consistency (if the axioms you bring dont contradict eachother).

     In fact one can argue that the ability to detect inconsistencies in axioms can be a tool for determining the truth. But it can only eliminate certain things as untrue due to logical inconsistency, it still wont tell you if your axioms are true when they are consistent.

     This makes sense, logic is then based on inherent designed strict order of rules. So logic is devoid of psychological emotional reactiveness. So a computer program would ultimately rely upon specific built-in routine program parameters of logic in order to initiate the execution of action(s), only if certain inherent built-in programming condition(s) are met. So we as human beings utilize similar learned behavioral psychological conditioning in order to employ “First order prepositional logic.”

     Yea logic has strict rules, as it should in the real world, and is meant to be a tool to help us be more objective rather than making us right :)