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   Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 07:58:25 JST Hyolobrika
   What does it mean to "choose to believe" something?
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     mist (ai@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 07:58:24 JST mist

     in reply to
     @Hyolobrika Rational irrationality. I choose to believe that life has meaning, that people are mostly good, and that IQ is malleable
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 07:58:51 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

     in reply to

     • mist
     @ai @Hyolobrika Very true, couldn't have said it better myself.
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     ?Hidden? (hidden@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:05:26 JST ?Hidden?

     in reply to
     @Hyolobrika It's what rightoids do when they say a carnivore diet is healthy
     georgia likes this.
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:17 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @hidden @Hyolobrika something something speaking to the bugman in their own language
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:18 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     @hidden @ai @Hyolobrika I fully support choosing what to believe, it's the self-description as "rational irrationality" that seems to me to indicate some measure of underlying confusion
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     ?Hidden? (hidden@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:19 JST ?Hidden?

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika Both. He believes them because he chose to. Simple as
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     ?Hidden? (hidden@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:21 JST ?Hidden?

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika Incorrect
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:21 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     @hidden @ai @Hyolobrika which part?
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:22 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)

     @ai @Hyolobrika or more likely, you do genuinely believe them but aren’t fully willing to admit that

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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:23:23 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     @ai @Hyolobrika if you describe your own beliefs as rational irrationality you don't really believe them
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:42:58 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     @ai @hidden @Hyolobrika I dont think you should need a special term. every belief is a choice you make, and there's no reason your beliefs being causally related to reality necessarily makes them intersubjectively verifiable
     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.
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     mist (ai@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:42:59 JST mist

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     • ?Hidden?
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @hidden @Hyolobrika Maybe I ought to find a better term. I don’t like “precommitment” because it implies that the belief in question only affects the future, but it also affects life right now
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     mist (ai@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:43:00 JST mist

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     • ?Hidden?
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @hidden @Hyolobrika one reason why I label it “irrationality” is that I couldn’t argue those beliefs if I had to. In choosing to believe them, I am trusting my own intuition over the facts and logic I see in front of me right now. Maybe faith is just “unjustified belief” like how knowledge is “justified belief.” Also, for me, the phrase “rational irrationality” has a connection with the game-theoretic concept of precommitting to a downstream action which you would otherwise chicken out of
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:43:00 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     @ai @hidden @Hyolobrika
     
     > one reason why I label it “irrationality” is that I couldn’t argue those beliefs if I had to. In choosing to believe them, I am trusting my own intuition over the facts and logic I see in front of me right now
     
     good, I support this and wasn't criticizing it, I guess its just not terminology I would use since it seems to reify a discursive view of epistemology that is wrongheaded
     
     I would write more on this but I don't want to start a pointless autistic argument about this, sorry (and explaining my thoughts on this would require a whole blog post)
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:46:43 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • ?Hidden?
     @hidden @ai @Hyolobrika "rational" and "irrational" aren't words I would use typically, but, if I had to define rational beliefs I would say they are beliefs which are formed through some process that includes causal connection with reality; they're beliefs that, if the world was different, you would not possess
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     ?Hidden? (hidden@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 08:46:44 JST ?Hidden?

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika I was gonna respond but I'll just let ai defend himself because I'm afraid of the possibility I'd have to talk about instrumental and epistemic rationality and akjsddfhsdjakfhsdjkf and end up in a defining words battle (My mortal enemy) :cirnothink:
     
     I would be curious to know what your definition of rationality and irrationality is though, since it's the words in particular you had qualms with.
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:21:11 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika it exists through logical causality
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:21:12 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika I don't know how one can logically justify 'free will' if it's gonna exist in a universe governed by rules. Either it's gonna be deterministic, probabilistic, or random.
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:21:13 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     @ai @Hyolobrika that free will exists, for me
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:21:13 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika it does
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:17 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @MercurialBuilding @Hyolobrika @ai maybe try observing that if statements like "what if I did X instead" were meaningless you couldn't provide consistent answers to them at all; you could never learn from a mistake; and so on. try thinking about what kind of operation your brain is doing when it generates and answers a question like that
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:18 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika I'm honestly not sure how to make someone "get" logical causality without a long explanation
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:19 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika well, I can't blame you for not understanding logical uncertainty, I haven't invented the theory of it yet after all
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:19 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika granted, I'm an idiot, but I don't see how any of what you're saying relates
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:20 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika I don't see how someone can say free will exists without defining it in relation to the boundaries the universe has
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:21 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika how can a choice be something other than deterministic, probabilistic or random?
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:21 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika that is a wrong question
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:23 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika regardless my conclusion is 'don't think about it because if you overthink it you'll be sad and life will feel meaningless'
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:23 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika you clearly haven't overthought it, given you dont seem capable of thinking about it at all
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:24 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika you are an idiot
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:25 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika it is possible to make statements about logical counterfactuals nonetheless
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:25 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika if you are a part of the universe, your choices are going to be bound by the laws of physics. If you're detached from the universe, your choices are going to be random.
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:26 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika how, if a computation will always result in the same output?
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:28 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika nah need to back up a step, making a choice would need to be the selection of that computation
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:28 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika no the process of choosing is the computation
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     nemesis (asbestos arc) (nemesis@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:29 JST nemesis (asbestos arc)

     in reply to

     • mist
     • Construction Worker
     @MercurialBuilding @ai @Hyolobrika that a certain computation resulted in one thing, rather than another
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     Construction Worker (mercurialbuilding@cawfee.club)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 12:10:30 JST Construction Worker

     in reply to

     • mist
     • nemesis (asbestos arc)
     @nemesis @ai @Hyolobrika what does making a choice actually mean?