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Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:46 JST Adam F. Lawton

Smh, more and more people just reveal themselves. It's cool. I'm here for it.

In conversation about a year ago from mastodon.online permalink
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  TCat likes reality (tcatinreality@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:40 JST TCat likes reality
  in reply to
  - Paul_IPv6
  - House Panther :verified:
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  I'd be delighted to see a political party build a track record and momentum at the local and state level. Then we'd have some real choice for POTUS not these long-shot saviors who would have no support in Congress anyway.
  If the #union movement go coordinated, it could easily morph into a powerful political movement.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:40 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @TCatInReality @Adam_Cadmon1 @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  Doesn’t matter. If you use plurality voting, there is crushing, inescapable pressure for parties to merge. Any successful third party will rapidly collapse into two parties again. It’s a trap built into the system: even if you win, you lose.
  And it’s not hypothetical; it’s already happened in US history. Arguably twice.
  
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  House Panther :verified: (housepanther@masto.goblackcat.net)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:42 JST House Panther :verified:
  in reply to
  - Paul_IPv6
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @paul_ipv6 Democracy is kind of dying as duopoly. We definitely need more than a two party system.
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:42 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  - Paul_IPv6
  - House Panther :verified:
  @housepanther @paul_ipv6 we do, but a presidential election is not the first time we should be hearing about 3rd party candidates. I've said this for literal years. 3rd parties need to work in the off years to build a base and stop popping up only during Presidential elections.
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:43 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  - Paul_IPv6
  @paul_ipv6 It's so weird how suggesting that voting 3rd party is not a good idea for democracy this time around is getting people up in arms. But that's my fault. I forgot, momentarily, that I am now on super self-righteous liberal Mastodon and NOBODY is going to tell us what to do. No sir!
  
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  Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:40:45 JST Paul_IPv6
  in reply to
  
  @Adam_Cadmon1
  the best part of the block button is how eager folks are to show that they deserve it. :D
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:43:27 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  Yup. The first and only third party to successfully field a presidential candidate was the Republican Party. The GOP is what a successful third party looks like.
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:43:28 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  @inthehands @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6 Are we talking about the Whigs and another party?
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:44:24 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  My “arguably” bit was referring to Teddy Roosevelt’s Progressive party (better known as the “Bullmoose” Party), which did not succeed, but did help spur a realignment of the two parties that survived.
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:47:03 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  Isn’t it wild to think that the Republican party was the party of civil rights and progressive politics up until WWI?
  Post-Bullmoose, there were several steps along the way for the Democratic party to pick up that mantle: most notably FDR and then Goldwater / Nixon / Southern Strategy.
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 05:47:05 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  @inthehands @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6 ah, ok. I was wondering about the other party.
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:01:00 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  Yeah, it sure is. Nothing in this world is immutable or eternal (except maybe the laws of physics, and even that, we’re just assuming). Change is possible.
  That said, the bizarre shifting of US political parties is a direct result of how we count votes, and third-party / “new alternative” movements need to reckon with that if they don’t want to just go in circles, or inadvertently sabotage us all.
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:01:01 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  @inthehands @TCatInReality @housepanther @paul_ipv6 lol, I think about it a lot. How even during the Reconstruction Era, Republicans were the party of progress and many elected Black officials identified as Republican at the time. It's completely wild how time shifts things.
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:07:41 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  - Paul_IPv6
  @paul_ipv6 @Adam_Cadmon1
  All of that is very true, and even more urgent than fixing Plurality Voting. If we don’t fix that, we are on the fast track to fascistic minority rule.
  But ditching Plurality Voting is specifically the reform we need to make third parties viable, instead of just a political footgun.
  
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  Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:07:42 JST Paul_IPv6
  in reply to
  @inthehands @Adam_Cadmon1 @TCatInReality @housepanther
  we need a slew of changes. ditch the electoral college. major campaign finance reform. mandatory consistent federal term limits (the same for all states), ditching of the current congressional seniority system for committee assignment, federal oversight (and enforcement!) of voting districts, federal standards for the algorithms used for said voting districts.
  way too many thumbs on the scale now and no calibration authority to counteract it.
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:11:43 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  @Adam_Cadmon1 @paul_ipv6 @TCatInReality @housepanther
  Agreed there. Term limits are one of these political candy ideas that •sound• really sensible at first blush, but are actually a terrible idea in practice for most things.
  (The SCOTUS and other appointed positions are a different question; I’m talking about elected positions.)
  
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  Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:11:44 JST Adam F. Lawton
  in reply to
  @paul_ipv6 @inthehands @TCatInReality @housepanther I agree with all of that except the uniform term limits (unless I'm misunderstanding you here) I used to be all for them. I don't know if the limits should be uniform, but I definitely don't think there should be ANY lifetime appointments. That's ridiculous. And we've absolutely go to get dark money out of politics. We need to know where every dollar is coming from.
  
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  Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:12:22 JST Paul Cantrell
  in reply to
  - TCat likes reality
  @TCatInReality
  Proportional representation is key, and even more urgent reform, but if we want third parties to actually work then it is specifically Plurality Voting we need to ditch.
  
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  TCat likes reality (tcatinreality@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 06:12:24 JST TCat likes reality
  in reply to
  @inthehands @Adam_Cadmon1 @housepanther @paul_ipv6
  Sad but true. That's where Proportional Representation comes in
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink

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