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@Xenophon I feel like someone followed me a few days ago, and their bio said something about White identity... I'll see if I can find them. They don't seem to post much though.
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@Xenophon @hazlin >His praying in the garden of Gethsemane, it was for us, not Him, because He wasn't praying to Himself 🤷
Mystery of The Trinity, although maybe a both/and situation there. It fits with the fully divine and fully human to ask "if it is possible, take this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will but yours be done". You can read that as both instructions for us for how to pray and handle challenges, but also as Jesus acknowledging his humanity by way of His divinity. In other words, He knew what was about to happen, He knew it would be horribly painful, He knew God could make it not happen (I believe Christ had the power to end the life of or stop those brutalizing Him with just a word), but He knew that His own will as a man was not what mattered in this circumstance and that God's perfect will and plan would and should be done.
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I made sure to read your posts before asking 😀
I just meant was there a specific thing He did in the bible that you believe was a sin to God, or was it just a sin to man? If we accept that Jesus did sin in one way, then how do we not accept that He sinned in others?
I do have to agree with Bowsac about Mark. He is quoting Psalm 22, similar to in Luke 20
>41 But he said to them, “How can they say that the Christ is David’s son? 42 For David himself says in the Book of Psalms,
>‘The Lord said to my Lord,
>Sit at my right hand,
>43 till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet.’
>44 David thus calls him Lord; so how is he his son?”
>45 And in the hearing of all the people he said to his disciples, 46 “Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and love salutations in the market places and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, 47 who devour widows’ houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”
The more I read, the more I realized how performative Jesus's existence was. As God, He was trying to instruct us, even though from a superficial standpoint He often appears as a normal man. When I was young and did CCD/etc it was always explained that way.
>Oh look, he was this great man, the son of God, and He died for our sins, but look how it was even difficult for Him?
But like His praying in the garden of Gethsemane, it was for us, not Him, because He wasn't praying to Himself 🤷
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@Xenophon erm, let me just do some copy-pasta for you.
The reaction has pretty much been universal... ignore what Christ did and said, and blindly quote scripture at me.
I can only do a little bit of that, before I start questioning if people are retarded.
It is like they think, Christ dying on a cross was an accident that brought Him to be accursed by the Law of God. So, we must overlook this fact! To protect God's word!
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Have you not considered that the strongest rebuke in the Bible, comes to Job when he questions God for his treatment?
Mark 15
34... “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
....
But, He suffered such things for our sake. And, they always seemed to be intentional. For right after questioning God, He said “It is finished.”
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Also
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Deuteronomy 21
22 If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is executed, and you hang his body on a tree, 23 you must not leave the body on the tree overnight, but you must be sure to bury him that day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse. You must not defile the land that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.
Galatians 3
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
To violate the Law of God, is to sin. He sinned for our sake.
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Additionally
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It was by the Father's design that Jesus was brought into conflict with the Law, so that it should be put to death. Because, He suffers no accuser of His Son.
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wasn't me!
Athough I have a question for you now, because I saw bowsacs post. What specific sin do you believe Christ committed?
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@Xenophon @hazlin >Non-trinitarian
Ancestors cry 😢.
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I'm not a trinity respector. God is one. Jesus is Yahweh, fully, there is no separation imo.
As I've said before, Jesus had to be 100% Yahweh in the flesh, because His death was a requirement under the law.
>7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
>2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
>3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
>4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Paul explains the law of remarriage to people whom in his own words, understand the law, because Jesus fulfilled this law of remarriage. They were dead to Yahweh through the sins of their ancestors, and His death allowed for their remarriage.
As Hosea said (probably my favorite verse in the entire bible)
>10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
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@Xenophon @BowsacNoodle You make me feel so normal sometimes. I am blessed by having many fedi friends who believe wildly different things, but who still rely on Christ for their salvation.
We are going to make it. Because God's Grace is more than enough.
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the trinity is a heresy used to separate Jesus from Yahweh. How many congregations are there that claim to be NT only, as if Jesus supersedes God? And as I explained, a son cannot die to free his fathers wife from her adultery. Jesus MUST be God, or His death cannot fulfill the law, as Paul explains in Romans 7.
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@hazlin @Xenophon >having many fedi friends who believe wildly different things, but who still rely on Christ for their salvation.
It is interesting, and the last part of that is the most important. If people trust in Christ but have views I find whacky while still trying to live as Christ instructed and following the two greatest commandments, I'm not going to make it my place to condemn them. The exception is when they use those beliefs to justify their own sins or lead others astray.
>God's grace is more than enough
Amen.
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@givenup @hazlin @Xenophon I don't know. That wasn't addressed towards anyone in particular, honestly. It is a matter of fact statement to me, as I've met strong believers of many denominations. I've felt "evil" and "good" presence before from people I didn't know that was later confirmed by their words and statements of faith. It doesn't happen daily, but enough times to remind me it's real.
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@BowsacNoodle @hazlin @Xenophon do i got whacky views?
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@BowsacNoodle @Xenophon
On paper, I'd rather my neighbor keep the two greatest commandments than to live against them, but it seems like death to require anything beyond faith for God's approval.
However, I think God's Grace is enough to cover that, so I find myself, not always speaking up on such things.
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@hazlin @Xenophon >it seems like death to require anything beyond faith for God's approval.
Yes. I am explicitly NOT trying to rehash the faith v works arguments, but mentioned that in the context of heterodoxies and the like.
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@BowsacNoodle @hazlin @Xenophon I feel that sometimes, rarely, particularly powerful faith can overcome lack of works and vice versa. I also feel it's mostly an academic question since regular people can, should and are capable of both good faith and good works.
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@caekislove @Xenophon @hazlin I think people get too autistic in discussion of this because we like to categorize things and make rules and neat boxes for things even though it should be simpler than that. I have a longer response I deleted because I'm explicitly not trying to have this discussion and I create a lot of religious hellthreads.
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@BowsacNoodle @Xenophon
I can appreciate that. I'm a big fan, of leading people into good things, and to lead them away from fires.
How can someone who knowingly leads his neighbor into destruction be anything but an enemy to all?
Saying things that like feels so right. Knowing and treating someone like your enemy... when they are you enemy is important.
My personal experience is that, God has often rescued me from carrying the burden of what is right and what is wrong. Such burdens feel right, but they always draw me into pride.
So, for myself, I only really feel comfortable teaching Grace. A careless faith in God, seems the most correct. Not once, has He ever let me stumble when I set aside the knowledge of good and evil, only relying on Him to keep me from falling. In fact, every time my life has gotten better.
Now, if only I could more consistently decline those most righteous of burdens.
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@hazlin @Xenophon >How can someone who knowingly leads his neighbor into destruction be anything but an enemy to all?
That's different from your neighbor, IMO. I am not a fan of small hat gang, but if I saw a guy stuck in the snow in -20 degrees, I'm not going to ask his religious and ethnic background before I try and push him out. I'm also not an idiot and will not do this in buffalo NY after dark.
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