@kirby it's not dead yet right now it's just the future is in serious fucking limbo. People are still using it because people will only stop when they're forced to since you can still upload videos about the jews on it or 3d printed gun plans.
@Pawlicker barely an excuse, cheap servers can cost less than 5 bucks a month if you know where to look. The real issue is there is no user friendly way of just spinning something up that easily, and youtube and such exists
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker the user is the average Joe here. Picture this: 14 year old zoomer straight outta 2009, only used smartphones all his life, doesn't wanna buy a computer. Has venmo and all that other stupid shit. He doesn't know jackshit about computers, he doesn't even know what the desktop is. Or how to make a directory.
Now picture trying to explain to them what a service is.
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker this is assuming the ideal scenario is absolutely everyone should just host their own server, at least half understanding what everything is doing.
This was required in the 90s and 2000s. Smartphones fucked it all up. Sort of why I wish people just retvrned.
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker you can't just force yourself to isolate into old mediums if you want to stay in touch with pals. If your pals are just people looking for fashion points, good
@Zerglingman@kirby@Pawlicker Plus you could always host the service, as there are FTP clients for smartshit, if you're really concerned about the normalniggers.
@Pawlicker@kirby Actually, scratch that. Almost all instances have unknown status because of some nodeinfo shenanigans, though openRegistration field seems to be present regardless. @p
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker@anonymous it's why I have those things. I like socializing with real people. It's easier to not bother and not look like a fool. I don't care to get more fashion points from people on r/linuxmasterrace.
@kirby@Zerglingman@anonymous this is what freetards have never got since the days of "move your Skype group to Mumble". It's a different kind of out of touch than the Gnome Foundation "people", but also being out of touch.
@kirby@Pawlicker@Zerglingman If they don't understand ignore them until they learn. I don't know how to use IRC that well either but if I really cared I'd learn.
@anonymous@Pawlicker@Zerglingman this is flawed logic, go outside and actually speak to someone. They're not gonna go over the roof for you just because you're their friend.
We're not going to be in the same situation, everyone has different preferences to people. Do you understand how many people get super annoyed when you tell them "Yo bro sign up to this thing I'm on"
It only works with best pals, not just anyone you like.
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker@anonymous better yet -- wait till you find one of these people from another corner of the internet, and you're going to start feeling the feeling """"normies"""" feel.
@kirby@Pawlicker@Zerglingman If they give so little of a shit that a polite “hey you know xyz.abc exists right?” that they stop being friends you’re in sore need of better friends. Not even kidding.
@anonymous@Pawlicker@Zerglingman it's not that they're going to refute -- it's that they're going to ignore. They're not even going to give the tiniest of fucks about this stupid little thing you want to show them. How does that make you feel?
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker@anonymous YOU don't actually talk to people. YOU talk to a group of people who are very similar to you. That's why you're able to get away with it.
I HAVE people who explicitly DONT share my core interests, I didn't go looking out for them, we just connected. THEY were tired when I tried to pull off these stunts you get away with in your groups.
You're not going to get the message, I figure I should mute the thread sooner rather than later.
> Almost all instances have unknown status because of some nodeinfo shenanigans,
Yeah, PeerTube is a little weird so support is a little spotty. Some of the code for that is written, but it's semi-unused. Last I heard, it's /api/v1/config , /api/v1/config/about , /api/v1/server/stats , but I didn't want to get into special-casing software.
@amerika@Pawlicker@kirby@mint Microsoft, when they are designing a product or a feature, consider three personified user archetypes: Mort (normie/noob), Elvis (regular programmer/"power user"), and Einstein (hacker). These guys are basically a notional tool to conceptualize the use-cases. For example, Mort uses VisualBasic, Elvis uses C#, and Einstein uses C++. Pareto distribution of aptitude.
Anyway, years and years ago, I wondered aloud why anyone would use PHP, and a coworker said "It's VB.NET for Linux" and it clicked.
In the end, choice of platform, or in this case refusal to use alternative platforms due to creature comforts does define a person's values. It is not as superficial as it seems because nowadays your inputs are completely dependent on the platforms you use. The equivalent from 30 years ago would be refusing to go hang out at any other place than the corporate mall. There is nothing wrong being friends and communicating with them but that doesn't mean you'll be able to change them towards something they really don't want to.
Turning them towards the kind of person that would reject slop and convenience for quality of relationships and content in the first place, would do far more than pressuring them to use alt platform. 2be6652c4be69a9ea5db01515978bb9…
@amerika@Pawlicker@p@kirby Perl is a write-only language used by autists. PHP is a purpose-built language for web, and it does its job well (especially in modern PHP 7/8 age) if the writer is not a retard.
@pomstan@Pawlicker@amerika@p@kirby JS was a purpose-build language for some interactive eyecandy, then it got repurposed for AJAX and eventually turned into the language for modern soyweb.
@amerika@Pawlicker@kirby@mint The main issue I have with Perl is the big bucket of implicit what-have-ye that comes with the language. I don't mind line noise or conciseness or cryptic identifiers. On the other hand, as soon as I learned Ruby, I stopped writing Perl forever.
> Yes, or as we used to call it, a macro language.
Plenty of room for glue code, plenty of need for it: even if you're making something clean, most code can't live in a plastic bubble. PHP just seems to have everything you'd want in a templating language and a lot of things that you wouldn't.
> Hypercard lives on.
INCIDENTALLY, there was some kind of Hypercard competition going around the side of fedi that drinks kombucha with their pinky extended.
> It requires a bit of a learning curve but there are benefits to knowing that stuff.
It's not the learning curve, but the amount of context the language asks you to keep in your head to read a line. Languages like that are really good for one-liners and total shit for reading anything longer than a page.
@amerika@Pawlicker@kirby@mint "Consistent" is not on the list of adjectives that spring to mind when I think of Perl. Perl's like the C++ of scripting languages: a massive agglomeration of everything the designer had ever heard of. You don't have to take my word for it, you can take Larry's: https://www.perl.com/pub/1999/03/pm.html/ .
(This is also why Perl's best feature is Larry Wall. :larrypowers:)
Putting everything into a single language is not necessarily desirable: you have pipes and allowing two different programs to communicate turns out to be more useful than any single language feature. The second Ken put pipes into Unix, every other system's fate was sealed. And here we are on the internet: just to get from where I am to where you are, there're at least eight languages¹ in use, and Pleroma has a pretty simple stack.
As a trivial example, it's hard to touch sed for concision if you are editing strings and it's equally hard to touch dc or k for calculations. All three of those languages are brutally concise (single-character identifiers and operations are about as concise as you can get) but very expressive and convenient, and the implementations can be really simple. If you have a reference card, you can probably clone 90% of sed or dc in a day, but making a single language that satisfies both sed users and dc users is nearly intractable, to say nothing of trying to satisfy both sed and k users or dc and k users. (Add something that would make SQL users happy too and we're way off in theoretical territory.) Same reason "λ" will mean different things if the context is physics versus computer science, or "θ" will mean several things just in different branches of math.
So just have both: give these languages a means to toss data back and forth between each other and you've solved the problem without complicating them. This is what makes Common Lisp feel crusty: no pipes, everything was monolithic back then.
¹ There's a bunch of C/assembly for all the OSs, there's this (terrible) browser that uses C++ [1] and JavaScript [2], then the page uses JavaScript, and it hits bloatfe (Go [3]), which then talks to nginx (C) and then Pleroma (Elixir [4] and some Erlang [5] on a VM written in C [6]), which talks to Postgres (C), and all of this on a box that is managed by a mess of bash[7]/awk[8]/etc. that I wrote. The uploads/avatars/etc. were served for most of FSE's life through a chunk of software I wrote in Ruby that spoke HTTP on one end and then consulted Redis (C) to figure out what arguments to pass to the venti (C) client programs but are now served by some Go software I wrote that is itself managed by rc and bash scripts.
(If you don't have listen1, you can use netcat or inetd or whatever.)
Run that, and you can point a browser at http://localhost:9090/whatever and it will echo it back to you. It should be pretty easy to tell how to use system() or getline in awk to dispatch to different programs or pieces of code based on what path is requested.
You are not going to have a good time building that kind of thing in awk, overall. You can have a screwdriver and a hammer and a saw, or you can have some kind of unholy multitool that is no good for any given task but can sorta do all of them.
@p@mint@Pawlicker@amerika@kirby Stage odd (one bit is set, but we're uncertain about the other one): the image is of a sea creature so ridiculous that is either completely made up or definitely can be found in very deep water.
@apropos@Pawlicker@amerika@kirby@mint All of the very deep water animals are made up. It's a practical joke created by dudes in brass diving helmets with handlebar moustaches and currently propagated by marine biologists that are unfortunately committed to the joke by the generations of marine biologists before them, and no one wants to finish up a PhD and jeopardize the salaries of every other marine biologist by being the snitch. Thousands of people, billions in research grants.
@Pawlicker@kirby Mine is probably open reg, but no bots have noticed yet AFAIK. It would blow my storage out at niggerspeed if anyone actually used it, but storage is cheap, I just need to set it up so I can just plug in a drive and start using it instantly. Some storage box on llvm or something. In terms of memory/cpu it seems fine. It's just extremely retarded in other ways instead. Just use ftp or something, it's not worth the headache.
@Zerglingman@Pawlicker@kirby Everything has to copy social media because everyone seems to think all young people are retarded. I mean, mjost are, but not all. People on these fringe technologies should really be targetting the non-retards.
The retards will eventually follow too, unfortunately, though.
@p@Pawlicker@amerika@kirby@pomstan IRS uses COBOL and is planning to operate even in post-apocalypse scenario. I would assume they won't be as cocky if their databases ran on, say, Python.
@mint@Pawlicker@amerika@kirby@pomstan Ha, I remember seeing job ads for $300k/year for COBOL programmers 20 years ago. (Most of these were for porting efforts. But the Nissan offices down in Torrance had some massive COBOL dinosaurs.)
I don't know what COBOL is like at the IRS but I imagine it's idiosyncratic. If the bombs fall, they may be able to send people bills, but unless they are also ensuring that banks can survive the apocalypse, I don't know how they plan to collect taxes or where they're going to put the money.
> Sed is the preferred option as it is installed by default on most Unix-like operating systems where awk has to be installed as a dependency.
No, both are mandated by POSIX, and they are not alternatives to each other any more than "cp" is an alternative to "ls". I'm familiar with no general-purpose Unix that fails to ship with both sed and awk.
@p@Pawlicker@amerika@kirby@pomstan Fallout would be a better franchise if the Enclave was remnants of IRS and not just a commission of paranoids formerly in positions of power.