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   opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:14:47 JST opal hart

   • NEETzsche
   • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
   • Godcast (the short half)
   @jeffcliff @NEETzsche @Godcast the problem with scientology seems to be the fact that it pivots around one man's ego, ive seen some of their underlying spiritual beliefs and those alone make sense, but of course anyone can include that kind of shit in their cult
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:14:45 JST NEETzsche

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     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     I never take the “this is what X group ACTUALLY BELIEVES” type segments seriously, especially if it comes from someone who left the faith or left the political ideology or whatever. They’ll have a detailed view of their beliefs, but it will be given the most pointedly parsimonious interpretation of the facts. People who left any branch of Christianity with a bitter taste in their mouth will give descriptions of the religion to the effect of “Christians believe a dead Jew died on the cross and now you have to give the Church 10% of your income or else you go to hell.” You know, as if that’s all there is to Christianity.

     You can do this with basically any religious movement. Most of them have something pertinent to say, and it counts, otherwise they wouldn’t survive more than a couple years. Really, you can probably do it with most political ideologies, too.

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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:18:22 JST opal hart

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff definitely. i only try to read about what scientology itself claims, and what they're known to do in practice. like, i dont think anyones gonna argue that most of it was one guy saying "believe me and pay for all these resources so i can help save you from this earth", thats fairly undisputed fact. i couldnt care less about what expats have to say about it, but i do sympathise with their experiences nonetheless
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:23:40 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     Scientology is a uniquely bizarre case, but really, I’m very used to people acting like anything even slightly off the reservation, so to speak, is total wackadoodle nonsense and deserves complete castigation and mirthless, condescending laughter. In the context of Christianity, I find it particularly annoying when people are off the Catholicism/Orthodoxy reservation but are obviously insecure about it (like Protestants) besmirch people who are off that reservation and make no apology for it (Gnostics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses) for being too far off the reservation.

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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:29:20 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     I’m a Gnostic Mormon. :iddqd: A lot of the things Joseph Smith came out with are eerily similar to those Gnostic texts in the Nag Hammandi library (and others) and I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I think he was legit. I think the Book of Mormon was real. It’s too specific in odd places to be entirely made-up.

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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:29:21 JST opal hart

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff as a gnostic myself, i find mormon beliefs really interesting
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:37:36 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     As for Gnostic views, I tend to lean toward a more Sethian angle, although I’m not entirely married to it since I also hold pro-natal views.

     We are literally in telestial hell. Lucifer (in the Mormon sense) plays a certain demiurgic role and actually is hellbent on depriving all of mankind of free will. Having a functioning bullshit detector is the difference between salvation and damnation. Everything is cyclical until the End with a capital E; churches are legitimate until they corrupt, and then illegitimate until they redeem. The forces of the Devil, Lucifer, the Demiurge, or whatever other name you prefer, are arrayed against us. And right now, today, the Mormon Church is one of the major countervailing forces against this, and no amount of ridicule or public castigation will change this. So stockpile your rations and your ammunition cleave to your family and get ready, because shit’s about to get real.

     Welcome to the War.

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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:37:39 JST opal hart

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff this is surely a fun timeline
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:44:47 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     Since @Moon joined the thread.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:47:10 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     @NEETzsche @opal @Godcast @jeffcliff the official church maybe lost the Keys in the 1800s when it capitulated to the United States government on polygamy. Very unusual things are happening in the official LDS hierarchy right now.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 00:49:59 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     The Mormon Church is full of some of the best and some of the worst people on Earth. Source: I live in Utah and I’m in it.

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     ec670@pawoo.net's status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:18:32 JST ec670

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @Moon @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff

     This is a shit take.

     The Mormon church got literally genocided by a few different state governments. The only time in history when a North American government gave an explicit extermination order against a white population on North American soil.

     And they deserved it. You know why?

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     ec670@pawoo.net's status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:25:17 JST ec670

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @Moon @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff

     This was well before divorce was legally permissible. The Mormon leaders not only had other men’s wives (with in-house religious wedding ceremonies) but also aired the dirty laundry, publicly, that the women were abused and neglected and unloved etc by their actual husbands.

     I mean, even if the woman has her grievances and sob stories, you don’t broadcast that thot logic in the based and rugged society of the 1800s.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:25:17 JST Sexy Moon

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     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     • ec670
     @ec670 @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff I have never asserted in this thread that they were perfect or that I even believe this stuff personally, it is my interpretation of events. marriage in mormonism is a temple ritual, separate from legal marriage
     NEETzsche and :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: like this.
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     ec670@pawoo.net's status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:32:04 JST ec670

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @Moon @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff

     But for the original husbands it WAS a legally binding commitment

     FAFO

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:32:04 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     • ec670
     @ec670 @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff Brigham Young was a cunt
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:49:45 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     • ランファン

     Well, consider the Nephite Pride Cycle. Churches can fall in and out of legitimacy. So the Catholics can have some real shine years and then some wicked years. Naturally, the same can be true of LDS.

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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:49:46 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @Moon

     I see two potential key-loss situations, both in the 1800s. The second is the one you mentioned, the first is the succession from Joseph to Brigham if one believes that was incorrect.

     If one considers either a valid loss of keys situation, it also sinks the entire concept of the Great Apostasy. If the keys can survive that, they can survive whatever corruption has flowed through Popes and any Orthodox patriarchs over the centuries. So to have faith in the LDS organization, one must not consider these significant problems on that scale.

     @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff

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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:54:05 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     • ランファン

     If you’re looking for some kind of discrete line in the sand for me to draw, I’m not going to do it for you. It’s basically when God says so. When a church recognizes or doesn’t recognize a person as a priest is a matter of that church’s policy. None are granted total and permanent authority.

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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:54:06 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @NEETzsche

     Maybe, but at what point does it become the loss of a valid priesthood?

     @opal @Godcast @Moon @jeffcliff

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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:57:37 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)

     @NEETzsche

     I am not asking you to do so. I’m posing a philosophical question. It’s why I reject the concept of the Great Apostasy. The church Peter established will not have Hell prevail against it. LDS beliefs dictate that the first church, the church of the Book of Acts, either was not that and was not established until the 1800s, or it Hell prevailed against it and Peter put it back up in the 1800s. I cannot personally reconcile this, so I do not believe it.

     @opal @Godcast @Moon @jeffcliff

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Nov-2023 01:59:59 JST Sexy Moon

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     • NEETzsche
     • Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
     • Godcast (the short half)
     • ランファン
     @leyonhjelm @opal @NEETzsche @Godcast @jeffcliff LDS believes the keys were lost after Peter and were re-established on Earth by Peter in celestial body form directly to Joseph Smith