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  1. Embed this notice
    Jon Worth (jon@gruene.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 05:48:20 JST Jon Worth Jon Worth
    • PGLux

    FFS. Idea to build a tunnel Spain-Morocco for trains.

    Spain can’t get its shit together with rail links to its neighbours it shares land borders with - Portugal and France

    I’m currently at Viana do Castelo 🇵🇹 waiting for one of only 2 trains a day to Spain from here… #CrossBorderRail

    Link via @PGLux

    https://www.infomediaire.net/la-liaison-ferroviaire-maroc-espagne-operationnelle-avant-le-debut-du-mondial-2030/

    In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 05:48:20 JST from gruene.social permalink

    Attachments

    1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: www.infomediaire.net
      La liaison ferroviaire Maroc-Espagne opérationnelle avant le début du Mondial 2030 ? - Infomédiaire
      from Infomediaire B
      Le tunnel qui reliera le Maroc à l'Espagne devrait être construit d'ici cinq ans, avant le début de la Coupe du monde 2030. C'est ce qu'affirme le quotidien espagnol La Razón.
    • Embed this notice
      Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 05:50:42 JST Miguel Arroz Miguel Arroz
      in reply to

      @jon There has been an ongoing discussion between PT and ES governments. From what I understand, Spain wants the Vigo connection first, Portugal is more interested in the Madrid one. And PT lost his train-supporting infra-structure minister, so not sure if/when anything will get done. Which is a shame, PT should really build a high speed network connected to the Spanish one.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 05:50:42 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 06:06:05 JST PGLux PGLux
      • goatsarah

      @goatsarah @jon

      The Gibraltar Tunnel, if any, won't cross the Straight where it is the shortest.

      Instead, it would run further West (Paloma - El Mnar): 100% longer, yet not so deep, with 15-16%o gradients.

      Much better than 33%o gradients on Algesiras - Belyounech.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 06:06:05 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 06:42:42 JST PGLux PGLux
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @goatsarah @jon @arroz

      Well, 🇵🇹 is at the periphery of 🇪🇺 , so ✈️ will remain quite dominant to travel to/from 🇫🇷 and beyond.

      The priority should be HSL Valença - Faro, expanding commuter rail and Metro in Lisbon and Oporto, and reviving fast tram plans in Faro.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 06:42:42 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:12:53 JST Miguel Arroz Miguel Arroz
      in reply to
      • goatsarah
      • PGLux

      @PGLux @goatsarah @jon The south of the country also needs more tracks and stations. For example, it's impractical or impossible to go anywhere in Costa Vicentina via public transportation. There should be a non-high-speed track, with many stations along the coast, like what happens North of Lisbon. Same for the interior, all the area around Alqueva.

      (I also have a weird dream of a tram looping around Alqueva but not sure if the mobility patterns of locals are a match).

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:12:53 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:15:52 JST PGLux PGLux
      in reply to
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @arroz @goatsarah @jon

      As a great fan of Sagres and Cabo Sao Vincente, I wouldn't mind some railay extension over there.

      But getting that HSL corridor from Valença - Faro should be the priority. It should have a strong structuring power.

      The only way to gain market share in the short and medium run on yearly summer migration would be to develop motorail services from 🇫🇷 🇧🇪 🇳🇱 🇱🇺 🇩🇪 🇨🇭 . Kinda more upmarket version of Optima Villach - Edirne.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:15:52 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:27:00 JST Miguel Arroz Miguel Arroz
      in reply to
      • goatsarah
      • PGLux

      @PGLux @goatsarah @jon I've always had mixed feelings about it. The big advantage of HSL would be to connect to Spain. Inside PT, I don't know how much we would gain from Braga (or Valença) to faro with HSL vs Alfa, assuming both the HSL stopped in Lisbon and Porto (slowdown + speedup + few minutes on the station), and Alfa actually goes at the speed it was supposed to…

      (Re-)building trains on locations that are missing might be more effective to get rid of 🚗 as first (and often only) option.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:27:00 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:39:18 JST Miguel Arroz Miguel Arroz
      in reply to
      • goatsarah
      • PGLux

      @PGLux @goatsarah @jon They both serve different purposes, so I'm not sure if the cost is a relevant factor. I'm not against building the HSL, but I believe today if you're served by the Alfa or even IC, you're good*. My concern is serving all the people that have no alternative to the car.

      * OTOH my reference now is Canada where you take 9 or 12 hours to travel a distance similar to Lisboa-Porto… the regional does LX-PRT in 4h59m, <40 euro…  https://mastodon.social/@arroz/111207953346499323 https://mastodon.social/@arroz/111208042637924816

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:39:18 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        Miguel Arroz (@arroz@mastodon.social)
        from Miguel Arroz
        Some things in North America blow my mind. A train from Vancouver to Kamloops takes… 9 hours. And apparently 12 coming back. Driving is 3 hr 38 min (353.8 km), according to Google. What the heck?!
      2. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: files.mastodon.social
        Miguel Arroz (@arroz@mastodon.social)
        from Miguel Arroz
        Attached: 1 image @electric_g
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:39:20 JST PGLux PGLux
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @goatsarah @jon @arroz

      Quite often, it's cheaper to build a HSL than adding 1 more track to an existing line...

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:39:20 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:42:52 JST PGLux PGLux
      in reply to
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @arroz @goatsarah @jon

      Total dual-tracking of the Linha do Sud would be quite a waste of money.

      Some long passing segments should suffice.

      Better extend the HSL Badajoz-Evora to Lisbon, and add a branch Evora-Beja-Faro.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:42:52 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      PGLux (pglux@mastodon.free-solutions.org)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:54:53 JST PGLux PGLux
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @goatsarah @jon @arroz

      Long passsing loops (3-5 km) can make it.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:54:53 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯 (skyfire101@aus.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:57:42 JST Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯 Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯
      in reply to
      • PGLux

      @jon @PGLux interesting idea, but don't think it would be viable due to shifting continental plates.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 07:57:42 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯 (skyfire101@aus.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 08:10:13 JST Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯 Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙‍♂️🕯
      • goatsarah
      • PGLux

      @goatsarah @jon @PGLux max depth: 900 metres (2,953 ft)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Strait%27s_depth_ranges_between%2CBritish_overseas_territory_of_Gibraltar.?wprov=sfla1

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 08:10:13 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: upload.wikimedia.org
        Strait of Gibraltar
        The Strait of Gibraltar (Arabic: مضيق جبل طارق, romanized: Maḍīq Jabal Ṭāriq; Spanish: Estrecho de Gibraltar, Archaic: Pillars of Hercules) is a narrow strait that connects the Atlantic Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea and separates Europe from Africa. The two continents are separated by 13 kilometres (8.1 miles; 7.0 nautical miles) of ocean at the Strait's narrowest point between Point Marroquí in Spain and Point Cires in Morocco. Ferries cross between the two continents every day in as little as 35 minutes. The Strait's depth ranges between 300 and 900 metres (980 and 2,950 feet; 160 and 490 fathoms).The strait lies in the territorial waters of Morocco, Spain, and the British overseas territory of Gibraltar. Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, foreign vessels and aircraft have the freedom of navigation and overflight to cross the strait of Gibraltar in case of continuous transit. Names and etymology The name comes from the Rock of Gibraltar, which...
    • Embed this notice
      Martha (island_martha@epicure.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 20:00:58 JST Martha Martha
      • goatsarah
      • Miguel Arroz

      @goatsarah @jon @arroz
      When getting in and out of Portugal requires navigating Spain with its love of automobiles and high speed Intercity trains it hard to see what can be done.

      In conversation Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 20:00:58 JST permalink

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