Jon Worth
FFS. Idea to build a tunnel Spain-Morocco for trains.
Spain can’t get its shit together with rail links to its neighbours it shares land borders with - Portugal and France
I’m currently at Viana do Castelo 🇵🇹 waiting for one of only 2 trains a day to Spain from here… #CrossBorderRail
Link via @PGLux
Miguel Arroz
@jon There has been an ongoing discussion between PT and ES governments. From what I understand, Spain wants the Vigo connection first, Portugal is more interested in the Madrid one. And PT lost his train-supporting infra-structure minister, so not sure if/when anything will get done. Which is a shame, PT should really build a high speed network connected to the Spanish one.
PGLux
The Gibraltar Tunnel, if any, won't cross the Straight where it is the shortest.
Instead, it would run further West (Paloma - El Mnar): 100% longer, yet not so deep, with 15-16%o gradients.
Much better than 33%o gradients on Algesiras - Belyounech.
PGLux
Well, 🇵🇹 is at the periphery of 🇪🇺 , so ✈️ will remain quite dominant to travel to/from 🇫🇷 and beyond.
The priority should be HSL Valença - Faro, expanding commuter rail and Metro in Lisbon and Oporto, and reviving fast tram plans in Faro.
Miguel Arroz
@PGLux @goatsarah @jon The south of the country also needs more tracks and stations. For example, it's impractical or impossible to go anywhere in Costa Vicentina via public transportation. There should be a non-high-speed track, with many stations along the coast, like what happens North of Lisbon. Same for the interior, all the area around Alqueva.
(I also have a weird dream of a tram looping around Alqueva but not sure if the mobility patterns of locals are a match).
PGLux
As a great fan of Sagres and Cabo Sao Vincente, I wouldn't mind some railay extension over there.
But getting that HSL corridor from Valença - Faro should be the priority. It should have a strong structuring power.
The only way to gain market share in the short and medium run on yearly summer migration would be to develop motorail services from 🇫🇷 🇧🇪 🇳🇱 🇱🇺 🇩🇪 🇨🇭 . Kinda more upmarket version of Optima Villach - Edirne.
Miguel Arroz
@PGLux @goatsarah @jon I've always had mixed feelings about it. The big advantage of HSL would be to connect to Spain. Inside PT, I don't know how much we would gain from Braga (or Valença) to faro with HSL vs Alfa, assuming both the HSL stopped in Lisbon and Porto (slowdown + speedup + few minutes on the station), and Alfa actually goes at the speed it was supposed to…
(Re-)building trains on locations that are missing might be more effective to get rid of 🚗 as first (and often only) option.
Miguel Arroz
@PGLux @goatsarah @jon They both serve different purposes, so I'm not sure if the cost is a relevant factor. I'm not against building the HSL, but I believe today if you're served by the Alfa or even IC, you're good*. My concern is serving all the people that have no alternative to the car.
* OTOH my reference now is Canada where you take 9 or 12 hours to travel a distance similar to Lisboa-Porto… the regional does LX-PRT in 4h59m, <40 euro… https://mastodon.social/@arroz/111207953346499323 https://mastodon.social/@arroz/111208042637924816
PGLux
Quite often, it's cheaper to build a HSL than adding 1 more track to an existing line...
PGLux
Total dual-tracking of the Linha do Sud would be quite a waste of money.
Some long passing segments should suffice.
Better extend the HSL Badajoz-Evora to Lisbon, and add a branch Evora-Beja-Faro.
PGLux
Long passsing loops (3-5 km) can make it.
Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙♂️🕯
@jon @PGLux interesting idea, but don't think it would be viable due to shifting continental plates.
Anthony 🇦🇺🦘🐨🪃🌟🧙♂️🕯
@goatsarah @jon @PGLux max depth: 900 metres (2,953 ft)
Martha
@goatsarah @jon @arroz
When getting in and out of Portugal requires navigating Spain with its love of automobiles and high speed Intercity trains it hard to see what can be done.
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