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   Josh Simmons (dotstdy@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:39:26 JST Josh Simmons

   • Gankra

   @Gankra yeah... It's always a bit fun when people expect static linking musl to solve all their woes. Forgot about the GPU driver :')

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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:39:21 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Tóth Gábor Baltazár
     • Gankra
     • indentation consulting services
     • Jonas Schievink
     @tthbaltazar @Gankra @dotstdy @sheevink (and even if you could, dlopen'ing any arbitrary libGL.so.1 or whatnot can pose ABI issues when it's not compiled against the same libc. gradle crashes for this reason for instance: https://github.com/gradle/gradle/issues/24875)
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:39:23 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Tóth Gábor Baltazár
     • Gankra
     • Jonas Schievink
     @tthbaltazar @sheevink @dotstdy @Gankra you can't dlopen from a static executable
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     Tóth Gábor Baltazár (tthbaltazar@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:39:24 JST Tóth Gábor Baltazár

     in reply to

     • Gankra
     • Jonas Schievink

     @sheevink @dotstdy @Gankra
     it could, but then that library would want other libraries loaded, but those don't exist on disk because it's statically compiled in, and we can't just point to that because it gets optimized (inlining and unused are removed)

     you could have a dynamic library embedded essentially, but you're loosing out on all the benefits of static linking, and get the worst of both worlds

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     Jonas Schievink (sheevink@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:39:25 JST Jonas Schievink

     in reply to

     • Gankra

     @dotstdy @Gankra can't musl dlopen that?

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:40:43 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Tóth Gábor Baltazár
     • Gankra
     • indentation consulting services
     • Jonas Schievink
     @psykose @tthbaltazar @sheevink @dotstdy @Gankra Isn't OpenGL (maybe not libGL.so.1 and other GLX stuff though, consider libOpenGL.so.0) supposed to have an ABI defined in an independent manner of the libc though?
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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:58:42 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan not really no, the issue is having a `NEEDED libc.so` at all. you can't really have a process that loads another one that then depends on libc.so (libGL and loading the graphics stack then also depends on like another 20 libraries and for some drivers even libLLVM, etc, just for posterity). the only way to have 'portably loaded .so plugins' that you can open anywhere from any executable (whether static or dynamic against glibc/musl/whatever) is when they don't depend on libc, and every random library people distribute would have the dependency
     
     https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2022/01/18/5 is somewhat analogous, but there's probably even more stuff that doesn't work on top of this, and aside from the thought experiment all anyone can really do is say "it doesn't work, don't even try it"
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 09:02:12 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • indentation consulting services
     @psykose Oooh, yeah right…
     
     Well I only distribute source code anyway so I have no reason to even dare try.
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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 09:27:08 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan if someone really cared about golfing this to 'prove me wrong' they might have some luck with a freestanding linux binary (no libc) that loads everything, but dunno, that seems quite painful
     
     it's also more painful than just distributing an electron program :^)
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 09:28:08 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • indentation consulting services
     @psykose Or using something like Python/Perl/whatever, or a single C file + tcc.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 10:14:11 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Tóth Gábor Baltazár
     • indentation consulting services
     @tthbaltazar @psykose Meanwhile I though few times about making my own barebones ld(1) implementation, lol. (meanwhile musl's ld.so looks good to me)
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     Tóth Gábor Baltazár (tthbaltazar@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 10:14:14 JST Tóth Gábor Baltazár

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • indentation consulting services

     @psykose @lanodan
     I have a very masochist definition of fun

     I've also been looking at how elf files work and been thinking about writing a dynamic linker