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   sim@shitposter.club's status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:58 JST sim
   How are trans people actually treated in Palestine?
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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:51 JST -

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     • opal hart
     @sim @opal ime queer people tend to be to be more aware of oppression, class/minority struggles, and the dangers of fascism, having likely been exposed to it on a personal level.. more-so people on alternative online circles like here.
     we may recognize the humanitarian crisis going on, even if the people in said crisis are not necessarily socially progressive enough. That's a battle that can be fought later.
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:52 JST sim

     in reply to

     • opal hart
     @opal Maybe it is worth looking into more because I didn't know that. I wondered why a trans woman didn't view palestine as an enemy. Looks like it is more the gay stuff that is a problem to them. Although I don't think palestine under hamas has much to support lgbt in general at the legal level.
     
     I mean, I would have thought that neither were friends in that conflict.
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:55 JST sim

     in reply to

     • opal hart
     @opal They are? I have to admit, that does surprise me. Maybe it shouldn't though, given western influence around probably plays a role. I'm not sure if Islam has much to say about trans people either so maybe it isn't the same as sexual activity between men.
     
     I think I remember reading about the concept in the middle east how if there isn't a son then one of the daughters will take on the role of the son, and that allows the women to leave the home. They are basically treated as a boy in their childhood.
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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:55 JST opal hart

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     @sim yeah islam is very acquainted with twospirit and third-gender type shit
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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:48:57 JST opal hart

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     @sim all i can say for sure is that trans identities are "officially" respected in islam generally, the reality may not currently line up with that but that would suck to go on for much longer
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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 14:53:41 JST -

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     • opal hart
     @sim @opal (although it is easy to find safety in exclusionary and exploitative societies if they consider you part of the circle, and many with the privilege will happily do so. i have queer friends who are pro western empires pro capitalism etc.. and i don't blame them)
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     Flick ?? (flick@spinster.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 15-Oct-2023 16:19:28 JST Flick ??

     in reply to

     @sim I’d be surprised if there are any “trans” people there: they have more important things to worry about.

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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:26:29 JST -

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     • opal hart
     @opal @sim it honestly baffles me that you're calling for social progress when the fundamental base for a stable social life hasn't even been laid. what do you expect really?
     
     and i mean, these issues while extremely important don't have any direct relation to the struggle of existence on which the question of support is given. just because you support palestinians in their liberation struggle doesn't mean you support everything they do or value. indeed, to assume so would be extremely naive.
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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:26:33 JST opal hart

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     @hyphen @sim
     >No need to try and discredit what I said like this.
     well then, show your cards rather than being handwavey and saying "let's wait"
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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:26:35 JST -

     in reply to

     • opal hart
     @opal I'm fortunate enough to be able to do more than keyboard activism. @sim wondered why "a trans woman didn't view Palestine as an enemy", and that's the deeper point in the discussion I engaged with after you've unraveled the initial question.
     
     No need to try and discredit what I said like this.
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     opal hart (opal@ap.maladaptive.art)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:26:37 JST opal hart

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     @sim
     >wear the masks
     >keep doing keyboard activism
     >the serious point of discussion can be dealt with later
     as it stands, i now have a vendetta against whatever's hiding in your head, @hyphen
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:26:38 JST sim

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     • opal hart
     @hyphen @opal Again, this doesn't really tell me why someone would say that palestine isn't their enemy but it seems like Israel is. If you take these things back far enough, both will have empires that conquered. Palestinians often have a faith that is conquering. It took over a lot of the Middle East and pushed into Europe. If the western empires didn't stop them, we'd all be Islamic. We may still become that.
     
     Neither are friends. I cannot believe that progressives or queer people are in support of this. This is selling the rest of us out within lgbt and it is worse in countries that don't support that where oppression is happening. Is it really something to be fought later when people are in danger now?
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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:27:36 JST -

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     • opal hart
     @opal @sim oppression by fascists is the intersection between palestinians and the community, and the basis for support despite the extreme difference in social values. hell, the plo (which was the leading political movement before israel essentially supported hamas into dominance if not ensured its very creation) is largely understood to be leftist and secular.
     
     even barring the existence of plo and looking only at hamas: one's support is not all-or-nothing kind of thing as I said.
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     - (hyphen@duwa.ng)'s status on Monday, 16-Oct-2023 22:27:46 JST -

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     • opal hart
     @opal @sim i'd rather we have people we can change their minds on the issue of lgbt and women's rights, not dead bodies bombed to bits.
     
     it also fucking sucks when the lgbt community is used all over the world as a scapegoat for governments which have abhorrent foreign policies, no better example than your own nation which are complicit in the bombing of palestinians all the way to stone-age. the uk's historic anti-lgbt laws are what the palestinian authorities are operating from, need i remind you? pinkwashing is the golden word here.
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