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   Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:11:24 JST Drew DeVault

   In case you were having a hard time interpreting the news: Israel is preparing for genocide this weekend.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:12:30 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • graywolf

     @graywolf the Palestinians have tried everything short of violence to end their oppression. I do not think that their actions are entirely just, but Israel has put Palestine through far worse and come out with a sparkly clean reputation among their western allies. Nothing justifies genocide.

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     graywolf (graywolf@emacs.ch)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:12:41 JST graywolf

     in reply to

     @drewdevault Right, because they should just take what Hamas did lying down and just call it a day. That would teach them a lesson.

   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:14:14 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • graywolf

     @graywolf I can't believe I have to say this but 👏 genocide 👏 is 👏 never 👏 justified 👏, fuck's sake

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     graywolf (graywolf@emacs.ch)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:14:16 JST graywolf

     in reply to

     @drewdevault Yes, that is how asymmetric warfare usually looks like.

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     Wolf480pl (wolf480pl@mstdn.io)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:15:22 JST Wolf480pl

     in reply to

     • Ivan E. Gubkin
     • meliache

     @meliache @IvanGubkin @drewdevault

     My opinion so far is that Hamas did a war crime, one which could be seen as a genocide attempt.
     Intentionally.
     To show that it's "effective" and deserves more donations from certain rich people.

     Now Israel, following its stupid "deescalation by escalation" policy, will try to kill as many Hamas combatants as possible, causing collateral damage, and possibly also doing war crimes.

     I do not think an aggressor-victim model can accurately describe this.

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     Wolf480pl (wolf480pl@mstdn.io)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:15:23 JST Wolf480pl

     in reply to

     • Ivan E. Gubkin
     • meliache

     @meliache @IvanGubkin @drewdevault

     > the security of the state of Israel is under existential threat

     This sentence makes no sense to me.
     Do you mean the very existence of state of Israel is under threat? If so, I disagree - Hamas alone is not an existential threat to Israel with its 300k+ army, and I'm not aware of neighboring states joining the war.

     > Israel's attacks are precise and deliberate

     The ones they show in media.
     They also use unguided bombs and arty, which aren't so precise.

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     meliache (meliache@digitalcourage.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:15:33 JST meliache

     in reply to

     • Ivan E. Gubkin

     @IvanGubkin @drewdevault Israel's attacks are precise and deliberate, despite accepting some "collateral" civilian losses, which militarily is difficult to avoid but can be rightfully to criticized. It's designating some safe spaces and giving some time to flee. That's by far not enough but it's *not* the same as a military that is intending genocide. And it would not be the first time for Israel to have ground troops in Gaza, still 2M people live there, so obviously last time had not been a genocide. Some parts of Israel's society wouldn't mind, but it also has a large liberal population (see the recent protests) which would oppose genocidal measures and Israel knows that they rely on their public image in the West. It's important that the West creates pressure for for humanitarian measures to protect civilians. Again, I expect to see human rights violations and don't excuse that, but it doesn't make it a genocide. That word creates a story in people's minds which is simplified and not true. 2/2

   • Embed this notice
     meliache (meliache@digitalcourage.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:15:35 JST meliache

     in reply to

     • Ivan E. Gubkin

     @IvanGubkin @drewdevault Sadly opinions on the internet seem very extreme and polarized. There has been a planned and coordinated attack on Israel and its civilians and the security of the state of Israel is under existential threat. I agree that Israel has the right to defend itself. Right now Israel is under shock. Yet, there are rules to law, there's the Geneva convention and there are human rights and they are not under debate no matter how barbaric the actions of you adversary may seem. I think we need voices that call out for moderation and to try to maintain those rules and rights to the largest possible extent. Because the solution to this conflict will not be achieved purely militarily, and it will need to deescalate eventually.

     But there will *NOT* be genocide, I have no reason to believe that this will be the case, there is no reason to believe that. I agree on calling out human right violations but you can't throw this word around lightly. 1/2

   • Embed this notice
     Ivan E. Gubkin (ivangubkin@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:15:36 JST Ivan E. Gubkin

     in reply to

     @drewdevault “When we build communities that tolerate abuse, we exclude anyone unwilling to tolerate being abused.” 💯💯💯

     “When we build communities that tolerate disinformation, we exclude anyone unwilling to tolerate being abused.”

     Israel is exercising its legitimate right to self-defense. Hamas actually implemented the brutal, widespread, indiscriminate attack on civilians. Its actual stated goal is to drive Israelis into the sea--that is, genocide. Did you miss that? Stop the lies.

   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:16:12 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • MysticBasil 🇺🇦

     @vazub do you expect me to acknowledge crimes committed by black communities in the United States whenever I condemn police brutality? Of course not.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     MysticBasil 🇺🇦 (vazub@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:16:13 JST MysticBasil 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @drewdevault Wait, did I miss the part where you were condemning Hamas terrorists for massacring innocent civilians - women, children? Otherwise, I would say this latest opinion of yours is very questionable.

   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 03:16:59 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     For the benefit of those in the back of the room: a pre-faschist right wing apartheid regime equipped with overwhelming modern military technology has ordered the most densely populated region in the world to move its population, which is 44% under the age of 14, from the north to the south of a 365-square-kilometer region, without the benefit of electricity, water, or fuel, or infrastructure, within 48 hours. A state which has killed thousands of these people over the last decade.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.