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  1. Embed this notice
    Laurie Voss (seldo@alpaca.gold)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 14:09:14 JST Laurie Voss Laurie Voss

    Warning: if you are operating a 30 year old cellphone it has greater value as an antique.

    In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 14:09:14 JST from alpaca.gold permalink

    Attachments


    1. https://files.alpaca.gold/files.alpaca.gold/media_attachments/files/111/219/971/938/736/839/original/04f2488742d0b236.jpeg
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 14:09:12 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      Was there ever any hard evidence of this? What radio frequencies from an ancient cell phone could ignite gasoline fumes?
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 14:09:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 22:55:04 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • Stephen Spencer
      I'm calling bullshit. Take any battery with leads like that and yank the cable. Try to make it spark. Good luck.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 22:55:04 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Stephen Spencer (vitaminj@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 22:55:07 JST Stephen Spencer Stephen Spencer
      in reply to
      • feld

      @feld @seldo it was to do with people dropping them, detachable batteries (remember them!) pinging loose and making a spark.

      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 22:55:07 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:07:53 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • SlicerDicer
      I haven't run any calculations or anything but I'm highly suspicious those batteries had enough voltage to spark that gap simply by unplugging even if they were at max discharge rate at the time of the incident

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:07:53 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: upload.wikimedia.org
        Paschen's law
        Paschen's law is an equation that gives the breakdown voltage, that is, the voltage necessary to start a discharge or electric arc, between two electrodes in a gas as a function of pressure and gap length. It is named after Friedrich Paschen who discovered it empirically in 1889.Paschen studied the breakdown voltage of various gases between parallel metal plates as the gas pressure and gap distance were varied: With a constant gap length, the voltage necessary to arc across the gap decreased as the pressure was reduced and then increased gradually, exceeding its original value. With a constant pressure, the voltage needed to cause an arc reduced as the gap size was reduced but only to a point. As the gap was reduced further, the voltage required to cause an arc began to rise and again exceeded its original value.For a given gas, the voltage is a function only of the product of the pressure and gap length. The curve he found of voltage versus the pressure-gap length product (right) is called Paschen's curve. He found an equation that fit these curves, which is now called Paschen's law.At higher pressures and gap...
    • Embed this notice
      SlicerDicer (slicerdicer@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:07:54 JST SlicerDicer SlicerDicer
      in reply to
      • feld
      >> Was there ever any hard evidence of this? What radio frequencies from an ancient cell phone could ignite gasoline fumes?

      I dunno we had ours in a pelican case when I lived on the island out there with no utilities. I mean the larger concern was sinking.

      >> it was to do with people dropping them, detachable batteries (remember them!) pinging loose and making a spark.

      NiCd SPERKS ER NER!!!

      I am calling bullshit. Just like when they had them in armrests of audis and things that talking and driving is dangerous.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:07:54 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:19:17 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • SlicerDicer
      Here's the manual and a battery of a Motorola MicroTac from 1996-ish and a photo of a MicroTAC 950 (~1990) battery. No leads on the battery.

      I have never seen leads on a *cell* phone battery, only a 900mhz cordless phone battery.

      source: I worked at Radioshack lol
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:19:17 JST permalink

      Attachments


      1. https://media.bikeshed.party/pleroma/0b8f700c10b9d4bbb19cbf8142a9c32020f3f886844e003d746191a6c7657c75.png

      2. https://media.bikeshed.party/pleroma/6a25a5d4464592596e5ed9e406808569318efc300e0e0afc0faae6a843b5983a.png
    • Embed this notice
      SlicerDicer (slicerdicer@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:19:18 JST SlicerDicer SlicerDicer
      in reply to
      • feld
      @feld I know of no 8 cell phone running at 12 volts. This is what it takes to spark. Galvanic corrosion and voltage with incorrect contact.

      Speaking of that I should probably clean them before the springs destruct themselves.

      Ohh and these batteries expired in 2016 too so that.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:19:18 JST permalink

      Attachments


    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:23:41 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • SlicerDicer
      Here's the Nokia Mobira Cityman from the late 80s that Gorbachev used. The battery has no cables either.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:23:41 JST permalink

      Attachments


      1. https://media.bikeshed.party/pleroma/1df933f2bda2d96e9f89831fda146727db60e683fa922cb0df0f66f5e9251873.png

      2. https://media.bikeshed.party/pleroma/9ab4796226b0f72adaef0d6f8056344cb5f0220eebe9e6a3482c8e818614ca4d.png
    • Embed this notice
      SlicerDicer (slicerdicer@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:23:42 JST SlicerDicer SlicerDicer
      in reply to
      • feld
      @feld Death by radio shack flames was not a thing afaik.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:23:42 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:33:45 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • feld
      • SlicerDicer
      Remember, Mythbusters also did an entire episode on this and determined it is not possible. However, it is possible to happen with static electricity.

      So imagine you're in the late 80s and the economy is still in the dumps from Black Tuesday. You had to sell your BMW and now you're driving a Toyota. It's winter. You've got the heater cranked in your car. It snowed a lot, and you got snow in your car because you had to move and you don't have covered parking / garage anymore so snow got inside. The snow melted. It's getting humid in your car. But it's cold as hell out. Luckily one of the few things you didn't have to sell to survive the downturn was your wool coat. You love your wool coat.

      Damn it's cold out as you're pumping gas. You go in your car to stay warm. You get out of your car dragging your wool coat across the cloth seats. Static electricity builds. You're on your phone, oblivious, trying to get the bank to give you a break. The static electricity has built up. You reach for the handle of the gas pump which is NOT coated in rubber (not for a few more years!) and **ZAP** there's the 20k volts required to make a spark


      That's about the only plausible explanation.
      In conversation Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:33:45 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Stephen Spencer (vitaminj@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:01:05 JST Stephen Spencer Stephen Spencer
      in reply to
      • feld

      @feld @seldo not like that kind, the kind with exposed contacts, or of the era of the phone on the sign (Motorola MR20, StarTAC) where the whole back is a battery and slides off and exposes spring-loaded contacts, which can skid along rough tarmac. Still, highly unlikely, but back in an era still happy with NiCd crap, I'm not sure I'd take my chances.

      In conversation Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:01:05 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:01:05 JST feld feld
      in reply to
      • Stephen Spencer
      But where is the spark coming from if the battery skids along the tarmac? The contacts are not touching each other (and if they did, still won't spark) and the metal-on-tarmac is not going to magically spark. Plus there's a million other possibilities of non-cellphone metal scraping the tarmac near a gas pump and that's not taken into consideration.

      Plus the gas fumes don't stay near the ground anyway. It would take a LOT of gasoline on the ground -- a spillf that needs attention, not being ignored -- to create enough fumes down there to cause ignition.
      In conversation Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:01:05 JST permalink

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