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   Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 05:52:53 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

   • Hollow Cанëк
   @solidsanek Even in most things called "roguelikes" you end up with things that aren't a game with "Exploratory procedurally 2D+levels generated maps + some kind of permadeath" which is the core of rogue and games derived from it. It's a bit like if people would call puyo puyo a tetris-like.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:18:30 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     @glitch @solidsanek Rogue Legacy is the worst in terms of naming, it has nothing to do with rogue…
     Binding of Isaac at least I could say it's comparable as a genre (rather than as a genealogy), quite like how you could also compare rogue and Diablo 1 (and maybe further ones, haven't played them yet).
     
     Or like group together Tetris and PuyoPuyo as something like arcade-puzzles.
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     Glitch (glitch@pl.glitch.pm)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:18:31 JST Glitch

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     @lanodan @solidsanek tbh that definition was killed off in the public eye thanks to the double whammy of Isaac and Rogue Legacy.
     
     Nowadays the only unifying factor seems to be "permadeath" (in big scare quotes because the amount of roguelikes that do true permadeath is also zero these days, they almost all do some form of metaprogression).
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:29:48 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     @glitch @solidsanek Anyway rant appart, I wish enough for a proper Tower Defense that I might end up making my own even though I basically haven't wrote any games ever (mods I did though but typically more on the server-side lol).
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:37:33 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     @glitch @solidsanek Vampire Survivor to me is a new genre, like I've seen it and games inspired by it (like HoloCure) being called a "Bullet Heaven" and I think that's a pretty good name.
     
     And I guess "arcade" as a definition is also going in the garbage since proper arcades seem to be pretty much retro outside of like Japan.
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     Glitch (glitch@pl.glitch.pm)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:37:35 JST Glitch

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     @lanodan @solidsanek yeah, Rogue Legacy is imo the worst one since it intentionally invokes the name of the original Rogue and I think it's also the one that formalized the "modern" read of the genre.
     
     Like, if we're talking about "credible" indie games that went slightly beyond the usual nerd audience, you had Spelunky in 2008 (which does still do the hardcore permadeath thing), Isaac in 2011 and then Rogue Legacy in 2012. From that point onwards, the definition of roguelike kinda lost all meaning.
     
     I guess if I were a bit liberal in my interpretations, I'd count Noita as a roguelike? It hits almost all the marks of the "berlin interpretation", but that's basically the only one in recent memory that hits the marks while being popular (and Spelunky 2 I suppose).
     
     Vampire Survivors gets called a roguelike and that game is the definition of an arcade title. People just started conflating the definition of "arcade" with "roguelike" over time I suppose.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:41:17 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     @glitch @solidsanek Well for me the reason I want to make a Tower Defense is to still play a Tower Defense game and maybe some sort of active-conservation, because it ought to be like rogue/doom/tetris where it just never dies out thanks to ease of portability and lack of ressource-needs.
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     Glitch (glitch@pl.glitch.pm)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:41:19 JST Glitch

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     @lanodan @solidsanek TBH I suspect most of the tower defense genre moved over to mobile games after Plants vs. Zombies was a big mobile runaway success. A lot of random flash games that seemingly vanished ended up on phones. (Infinite runners, dress-up simulators, that kinda jazz.)
     
     Maybe there's some gems in there but it's gonna be riddled with the mobile MTX bullshit.
     
     (Don't let this discourage you from gamedev tho or anything, just speculating what happened to it.)
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     vv221 (vv221@fediverse.dotslashplay.it)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:46:35 JST vv221

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     Diablo 1 is a wonderful gothic horror slow-paced hack & slash, supported by a libre engine: https://github.com/diasurgical/devilutionX
     This is the only one that could be compared to roguelikes (even if it is not one).
     
     Diablo 2 is a great frantic hack & slash with a lot of fun builds to try.
     
     There has been no further game in this series. None. Better look at worthwhile things like Torchlight (1 and 2), Titan Quest and Grim Dawn.
     
     CC: @solidsanek@outerheaven.club @glitch@pl.glitch.pm
     
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 06:54:30 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hollow Cанëк
     • Glitch
     • vv221
     @vv221 @solidsanek @glitch Yeah, devilutionX is the reason why I've played Diablo 1.
     These days I just buy the game assets/arts and use a libre engine, much less troubles and so much more portable.