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   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2023 05:38:24 JST Paul Cantrell

   The violence in Israel and Gaza gets a lot less confusing if we stop viewing this as a conflict between Israel and Palestine, and start viewing it as a conflict between people who want peace and people and want supremacy.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2023 05:50:45 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Framed that way, there’s been a remarkable shift over the past half-century:

     There have long been Arab factions who wanted to see Israel wiped off the map. There have long been Israeli factions who want a state of apartheid and eventual total displacement for Palestinians.

     The former faction, once dominant in Arab politics, is now muted.

     The latter is ascendant, and now dominant in Israeli politics.

     Two factions both genocidal in nature, yes, but not presently on equal political footing.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:45:00 JST Paul Cantrell

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     • Servelan

     This from @servelan brings the point upthread into focus:
     https://newsie.social/@servelan/111206592975997524

     Of •course• the Netanyahu gov downplayed warnings of the Hamas attack. Of •course• Cheney admin officials downplayed warnings of 9/11. Why shouldn’t they have? An attack is their interest. It gives them the war they want.

     I am not suggesting any sort of conspiracy, or even conscious desire to let specific attacks happen — just that passivity is in their interest. Stochastic war-stoking via administrative neglect.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:49:46 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Thus to my point: the larger conflict here is peace versus supremacism. In that larger conflict, Hamas and Netanyahu are on the same side. •The same side•. They are working toward the shared goal of war.

     Given that, we should not be surprised when such parties take action that leads to war.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:55:14 JST Paul Cantrell

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     Why would Hamas undertake an attack that seems all but guaranteed to provoke catastrophic destruction of Palestinian territory and Palestinian lives?

     Why would Israel willfully downplay warnings of such an attack?

     If we accept the premise that these parties want war, then their actions are rational. Savvy, even.

     As someone who despises war and despises supremacist thinking of all stripes, it’s hard for me to imagine that mindset. But it’s the explanation that makes sense.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 05:01:18 JST Paul Cantrell

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     • James M Branum - Activist ☮

     Compare the above to this remarkable statement (read the whole thread from @jmb!) from Israeli military veterans:
     https://okpeace.org/@jmb/111202443246698083

     The larger conflict here is between peacemakers and supremacists. Those two signs cut across national and religious lines. Keep your eye on the ball. When asking which side some political figure is on, •those• are the two sides to consider.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 09:27:22 JST Paul Cantrell

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     • Laffy

     Maybe you thought what I said upthread was hyperbole. I meant it. I think the Netanyahu government wanted this. They wanted these Israeli deaths. Hamas wants these Palestinian deaths. They want war, and they’re happy to sacrifice the people they govern in order to get it.
     (from @GottaLaff):
     https://mastodon.social/@GottaLaff/111212578033237317

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     Masonic Cowgirl (julieofthespirits@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2023 23:55:53 JST Masonic Cowgirl

     in reply to

     • Laffy

     @inthehands @GottaLaff I don't know if I go that far, but I do think that if Netanyahu gains his political power from being someone who Keeps You Safe At Night he doesn't actually have a motivation to create a comprehensive solution that actually would keep you safe at night. His goal was to manage the violence, not eliminate it, and the way it had been managed up until now - mostly peaceful but punctuated by exchanges of missiles every couple of years, with Israeli citizens mostly scared but honestly fairly safe thanks to the Iron Dome - was ideal for him. This weekend, that balance collapsed

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 00:12:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Masonic Cowgirl
     • Laffy

     @julieofthespirits @GottaLaff
     Yeah, on my less grumpy days I’d phrase it more like that. We’re thinking along the same line, I think. It’s a fuzzy line between negligence and intent.
     https://hachyderm.io/@inthehands/111216941875432547

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 01:15:38 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Putting the framing above into practice:

     Which side bombed the hospital?

     The side that wants war.

     Not the side that wants peace and coexistence. No. The side that commits — and wants — war crimes, terrorism, and genocide. The side that wants Israel and Palestine in conflict that leaves one side annihilated. The supremacists. •That• side. They did it.

     As with all binary “two sides” framings, this is pat, reductive, too easy — but it’s the framing that leads us to useful conclusions.

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     anilmc (anilmc@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 01:38:00 JST anilmc

     in reply to

     @inthehands i like this thread.

     There is a continuum from those who see only tragedy in war & inherent good/worth in all people to those who believe might is right and can lead to good outcomes. Mutually beneficial vs zero-sum. Amygdala dominant vs frontal lobe dominant reasoning.

     I don't think that people's position on the spectrum is fixed. Environmental factors like trauma, grief, betrayal - or propaganda (which mimics these) move people strongly - a process we know as radicalisation

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 20-Oct-2023 00:27:08 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     The other side is fighting, too:
     https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/do-not-use-our-death-to-bring-death-plea-to-israel-from-peace-activists-grieving-families

     Remember, this isn’t “the Israeli side.” I’m arguing that’s a wrongheaded framing. No, this is the side that wants justice and peace, that will not accept war crimes, that will not accept genocide. •That• side. The side that the Netanyahu-Hamas side must continually defeat in order to have the war they want.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 22-Oct-2023 07:13:26 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Tyler Cohen

     Thoughts along the lines of the thread above, stated with heart-tending clarity (ht @tylerzonia for the link):
     https://www.972mag.com/picking-up-pieces-grief-israelis-palestinians/

     “Who bombed the hospital? But the children are already dead, watching us go on stupid Twitter to find out how they died. Miserable. Your war machines killed them, you useless militants, whoever you are.”