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   Strange Seawolf (strangeseawolf@mindly.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:37:59 JST Strange Seawolf

   • RS, Author, Novelist
   • Waiting for the Tide

   @Nichelle @sfwrtr Oooh, that's a good lead, thank you for the hint! 👍
   I wonder how far I can take it without getting awkward of the reader being pulled out of the story. But it is kind of a challenge that would be interesting. The first person certainly helps with hiding the gender, although it is usually not my preferred writing voice. But then again: another interesting challenge.

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     RS, Author, Novelist (sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:37:59 JST RS, Author, Novelist

     in reply to

     • Waiting for the Tide

     @strangeseawolf @Nichelle

     "[I am not sure] I can still make an MC compelling without the reader being able to tell if they are man, woman or non-binary."

     I think it can be done, but it might mean that your gut reaction about where the plot needs to go will have to be carefully examined. Writers have reflexes, too! Go for it.

     I think the key is to never put the MC in a position where they must admit this information unless it's climactic or necessary for the denouement, in which case foreshadowing is necessary. Remember, the best part of 1st person is the POV is under no obligation to report anything they don't want to report (unlike 3rd). They are telling /their/ story. We all self-censor. Of course, as the author you can report things the self-censoring I-POV might not think important as foreshadowing. Sneaky author, right? I write I-POV and I very much enjoy the flamboyant dance of the unreliable narrator.

     Thinking about this, I did modify my /Mask/ Writever story to give the reader a choice of whether they think it has M/F or M/M "romance" element. It did this by changing,

     "You're tall, plain, gawky, lacking any curves, almost flat."

     to

     "You're tall, plain, gawky, not even wild looking."

     Like that, absolutely no mention of the I-POV's gender whatsoever. It absolutely works M/M. Hints exist for either choice. If readers at the end suddenly wonder, I'll have made them think and I will be very pleased. I like this change, so thank you for letting me think it through.

     Here's a link to the story: https://eldritch.cafe/@sfwrtr/111184220824147915

     I'm adding hashtags as I think a wider audience might find this interesting.

     #fiction #fantasy #sf #sff #firstPerson #POV #sciencefiction #writing #writer #writers #author #writingcommunity #writersOfMastodon
     #RSstory #RSdiscussion

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     Strange Seawolf (strangeseawolf@mindly.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:08 JST Strange Seawolf

     in reply to

     • RS, Author, Novelist

     @sfwrtr ...I can still make an MC compelling without the reader being able to tell if they are man, woman or non-binary. If I can't pull it off, i think I will settle for a clearly non-binary MC since I have never written one and, as a genderagnostic myself, I think it is about time. 2/2

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     Strange Seawolf (strangeseawolf@mindly.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:10 JST Strange Seawolf

     in reply to

     • RS, Author, Novelist

     @sfwrtr Thank you for the feedback, which is exactly why I put it out there. I like getting feedback as long as it is constructive like yours.👍

     For the genre the point is that I am still not decided, so things might change (how the MC loses the fingers, the drinks...). It is interesting to see how much you can stay vague and how much you can't.

     The MC is intentionally not gendered. I am interested to see how much I can play with people not knowing the gender and if... 1/2

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     Strange Seawolf (strangeseawolf@mindly.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:11 JST Strange Seawolf

     So, today, short before lunch, this story idea / character materialized in my brain and I had to write it down.

     It is a very rough #WiP and right now a lot of things are pretty vague, but this character and, while writing, the second one are "there", so I wanted to share the idea to hear what you think about it.

     Meet

     Blue Nightsky, Nightmare Manager

     https://archiveofourown.org/works/50619472

   • Embed this notice
     RS, Author, Novelist (sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:11 JST RS, Author, Novelist

     in reply to

     @strangeseawolf
     Since the author asked me to make my critique public, I am doing so. I don't do public critiques without consent. To wit:

     Love the concept. That first line rocks.

     Unsure of the genre. Thinking Is this mainstream or urban fantasy? Modern re table saw. Or just modern magical world, which I think is keen.

     Gender not obvious in first part; maybe intentional. Not sure how to state gender if wanted to, considering POV.

     No attribution on the first line caused me to mistake MC was suggesting they be a nightmare manager. Thought it was the mom.

     Bottle is too anonymous. You later imply beer, but it was a sore thumb sticking up to me. Distracting.

     Robe throws me, but only because I'm unsure of the genre. Made me think, is this a halloween story off and on, tho prob not.

     I've always thought eye makeup for men makes sense. The ancient Egyptians did it, so why not modern men. Doesn't reset my gender expectations, but I kind of feel like I'd like to know for sure what the MC feels. Lack of genre expectations and understand of place being iffy, don't ya know.

     Kept my interest to the end and left me wondering what happens, but whilst it is obvious who the characters are, the thing that threatens to throw me out is "time and place." I'd suggest you make that clearer, or define the genre better, thus our expectations.

     The concept is a good one, though.

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     Albert ARIBAUD ✎ (aaribaud@mastodon.art)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:25 JST Albert ARIBAUD ✎

     in reply to

     • Wendy Palmer
     • RS, Author, Novelist
     • Waiting for the Tide

     @wendypalmer @sfwrtr @strangeseawolf @Nichelle Reminds me, *mutatis mutandis*, of the trade trick artists use to catch issues in their drawing: flip it horizontally (for digital ones), or look at it through a mirror (for traditional ones).

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     Wendy Palmer (wendypalmer@mastodon.au)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:26 JST Wendy Palmer

     in reply to

     • RS, Author, Novelist
     • Waiting for the Tide

     @sfwrtr @strangeseawolf @Nichelle

     true, that’s why it’d be such an interesting experiment. I feel like I write relatively gender-neutral characters but we’re all so seeped in our respective cultures’ gender markers that it’d be sure to trip me over my own subconscious biases and that would be valuable.

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     Wendy Palmer (wendypalmer@mastodon.au)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:27 JST Wendy Palmer

     in reply to

     • RS, Author, Novelist
     • Waiting for the Tide

     @sfwrtr @strangeseawolf @Nichelle

     “it might mean that your gut reaction about where the plot needs to go will have to be carefully examined. Writers have reflexes, too!”

     I’d most like to write a book as usual, then click a button and have every pronoun switch, and see how that affects the story.

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     RS, Author, Novelist (sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Oct-2023 15:38:27 JST RS, Author, Novelist

     in reply to

     • Wendy Palmer
     • Waiting for the Tide

     @wendypalmer @strangeseawolf @Nichelle

     "I’d most like to write a book as usual, then click a button and have every pronoun switch, and see how that affects the story."

     Character tags (little bits of description or telling action attributed to the character) are subtle bits of subtext that we use to make a story flow transparently. In my /Mask/ story, for example, the character "wipes unexpected hot tears" after being shot down. Feminine, right? Wrong. Men will react privately, or unconsciously, or if they haven't bought into guy-culture, easily. But without pronouns and gender subtext-ing, the statement becomes fodder for the reader deciding not only "what" but "does it actually matter?" My removal of the few gendering words didn't change the character, except in the reader's mind. Yep. Caveat, very short story.

     My bet is switching "she" to "he" globally will be less jarring than vice-versa (make-up and dresses notwithstanding, maybe.) These days masculine behavior in women is much more accepted still than the other way around. In the end, your result depends on how you write your characters. I-POV makes a big difference, of course.