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1. Embed this notice
   goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 01:24:24 JST goatsarah

   in reply to

   • An Oathbound Familiar
   • Vistl
   @oathboundFamiliar @Vistl added to 2, trans girls see all the negative e media stuff about women, and internalise it as being about what we aspire to.
   • Embed this notice
     An Oathbound Familiar (oathboundfamiliar@gender.systems)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 01:24:25 JST An Oathbound Familiar

     in reply to

     • Vistl

     @Vistl twofold:

     1) "male socialization" is a dog-whistle for calling trans women men because they "act like" men by being loud/standing up for ourselves/throwing a punch/whatever. there's also the underlying current of "male privilege" associated there.

     2) I was never socialized as a man, I was socialized as a trans woman. society very often knows before we do and treats us accordingly. anything that could be called "male socialization" failed spectacularly because it wasn't meant for me.

   • Embed this notice
     Vistl (vistl@gender.systems)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2023 01:24:29 JST Vistl

     I'm coming at this from a place of not understanding and seeking to understand.

     I don't get the stances against the terms "male/female socialization". People are treated certain gendered ways before they begin to figure out their gender identity and come out. I was treated like a binary gender before I came out, and it meant I was expected to perform certain roles. That has had a influence on me my whole life, sometimes pronounced, sometimes subtle. This doesn't in any way mean that those socializations are permanent marks on anyone's life, and it doesn't make them any less of their real chosen gender.

     Am I using these terms the way that others are? Is there something I'm missing?