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   Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel (ykantrachelread@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:11:45 JST Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel

   I just don't understand the people trying to make this shit a "black vs trans" thing.

   if I had to guess, more than likely, there were one or more, most likely white, cis or TME people somewhere in the chain of events that let their unexamined internalized tranamisogyny lead them to blocking a bunch of transfem-centric instances. this all trickled upward into the bad space blocklist, and now are0h is letting his pride get the better of him and doubling down instead of trying to sincerely address the concerns of a marginalized demographic whose specific marginalization he doesn't share.

   that's it.

   me, I'll do my best to stand with my BIPOC brothers, sisters and siblings in every fight for justice, because my liberation depends on theirs, and vice versa. we're not free until we're all free.

   what I don't stand with is a bunch of unapologetic HOA types who think they're immune to systemic bias.

   • Embed this notice
     Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel (ykantrachelread@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:16:28 JST Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel

     in reply to

     • Shrig 🐌

     @Shrigglepuss yeah, I don't doubt that there's a handful of racist white trans people out there out there who have seen this situation as an excuse to spread racist BS. there's always bad actors in situations like this. to extrapolate that into "everyone criticizing are0h is doing so for racist reasons," though, is just dishonest on its face, not to mention dismissive of the genuine concerns that people have over, you know, being accused of shit they didn't do and having it suggested that the rest of fedi needs to defederate from them out of their own desire for safety.

     also: "it's impossible to be flawless in this," as though the issue at stake is a minor booboo instead of literally thousands of powerless, mostly marginalized, predominantly transfem people being slandered and potentially deprived of wider community.

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:16:29 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead I have seen one (let's be real, it's been more), white trans people somewhere in the chain of events that let their unexamined anti-Blackbess lead them to sparking up rumours in order to maliciously discredit a community safety tool. Let's be fair here.
     Ro is building something complex and has demonstrated that instances are removed if genuine mistakes have been made. It's impossible to be flawless in this. The racism I've seen/called in has been less quick to examine its self

     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel (ykantrachelread@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:18:53 JST Rachel, Femme Doux Naturel

     in reply to

     • Shrig 🐌

     @Shrigglepuss I don't feel like debating with yet another TME queer about how coming out against the practice of accusing powerless transfem people of hate speech without receipts and suggesting that they be isolated from the rest of the fediverse, at the same time as there's an active genocide going on against us in the world at large, is, as you put it, a "concern troll," so I'm just going to block you.

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:18:54 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead The rest of the fediverse is its own boss. I'm not suggesting that everybody is doing it from a place of racism at all, that's a mischaracterisation, there is a lot of that happening, and a lot of people prepared to believe it all at face value which isn't working towards building safer communities for all at all.
     1/

     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:24:02 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Shrig 🐌

     @Shrigglepuss @YKantRachelRead

     "I'm not sure "thousands" of transfem people are being slandered here, nor deprived (nobody is forcing anybody to block anybody),"

     Just because nobody is forcing anyone to block anybody else doesn't mean that putting instances on a well-known block list doesn't have the effect of deprivation?? That's literally such a disingenuous way to downplay the effect that it has. Jesus Christ.

     "a bunch of false positives have been quite rightly removed"

     First of all that doesn't actually undo the potential harm whatsoever because people will resurrect debunked accusations against trans fem people (and anyone) basically endlessly once the accusation is out there and because anyone who imported the block list before those instances were removed may not remove those instances. Also a lot of the critiques including mine are about how those false positives got there in the first place and how we can possibly trust the system to not keep putting in false positives that we then have to keep removing. Because it looks like those false positives predominantly got there via transmisogyny and a very poor methodology.

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:24:04 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead I'm not sure "thousands" of transfem people are being slandered here, nor deprived (nobody is forcing anybody to block anybody), and a bunch of false-positives have been quite rightly removed, and more can be removed as they are discovered if projects like this are engaged with instead of shat all over from afar.
     4/

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:24:05 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead I'm speaking on this because I worry the most for Black trans people that are being entirely neglected in this awful somehow two-sided "debate" and I'm not prepared to let that slide. It's entirely possible to root out bigotry without making an us vs them fight between two marginalised groups, I agree with you that it's unbelievable that it's even happening with this framing at all.
     3/

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:24:06 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead He's not been dismissive of any genuine concerns that I've seen (and agreed with!), but certainly dismissive of concern trolls for want of a better expression which is an important difference.
     2/

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:37:29 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Shrig 🐌

     @Shrigglepuss @YKantRachelRead

     "I still stand by that it's impossible to be flawless when doing anything like this particularly involving interpersonal conflicts, community safeguarding etc, it's unreasonable to expect perfection"

     The thing is that this whole debacle demonstrates core problems with the methodology behind the bad space: namely, instead of relying on a distributed system based on the community building up knowledge collectively it relies on a small selection of trusted authorities that get to become the centralized judges, and it starts by importing gigantic lists from those trusted authorities and then whittles them down instead of trying to only add an instance to the list in the first place if there is evidence to justify it being there, which means that there is inherently a guilty until proven innocent tendency in the system itself.

     "and it's not lost on me that absolute perfection is expected from Ro in order for him to be trusted at all in contrast to the leniency given to those that will tell lies about him. I hope more people are noticing that too."

     Funnily enough that's precisely a point Ro made recently in his posts, but it is very disingenuous. We are not expecting absolute perfection, we are expecting a methodology in building a list that is not fundamentally flawed — an approach to building it that actually cares about evidence and not accusing marginalized and largely powerless people of heinous things on the basis of no evidence. One that isn't massively centralized and doesn't rely on trusting certain authorities (some of whom I don't think were good choices). And more importantly, we're pointing out actual harm that was done, and getting angry about it bc it was fucked up — should we simply not do that bc "its a work and progress"? I thought we didn't like the "move fast and break things" silicon valley approach

   • Embed this notice
     Shrig 🐌 (shrigglepuss@godforsaken.website)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:37:31 JST Shrig 🐌

     in reply to

     @YKantRachelRead I still stand by that it's impossible to be flawless when doing anything like this particularly involving interpersonal conflicts, community safeguarding etc, it's unreasonable to expect perfection and it's not lost on me that absolute perfection is expected from Ro in order for him to be trusted at all in contrast to the leniency given to those that will tell lies about him. I hope more people are noticing that too.
     5/

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Sep-2023 07:38:05 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Shrig 🐌

     @Shrigglepuss @YKantRachelRead honestly your whole thread seems like a giant process of tone policing and downplaying and redirecting because you don't actually care about transfem people.