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   AnthonyJK-Admin (anthonyjk@mastodon.redgarterclub.com)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:00:37 JST AnthonyJK-Admin

   The funny thing about it is that I consider right-wing "libertarianism" to be a misnomer to begin with, because most self-ID'd folk really have no problem with using the full power of government (even if it's only localized government) to impose their power onto others and protect their privileges. Even Rand Paul isn't giving up his US Senate salary or his power to get his share of pork, right?

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     AnthonyJK-Admin (anthonyjk@mastodon.redgarterclub.com)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:11:07 JST AnthonyJK-Admin

     in reply to

     By the same token, and with all respect to the legacy of anarchism as a socialist movement, I find the phrase "libertarian socialism" to be almost as big a misnomer, because you still have to seize power and gain control of the government in order to transform it to egalitarian socialist standards. Merely seceding or walking away isn't enough, especially if the other side has all the guns and bombs.

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     Xauri'EL Zwaan (xauriel@mastodon.nz)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:11:44 JST Xauri'EL Zwaan

     in reply to

     @AnthonyJK it could be argued that Robert Nozick or Friedrich Hayek have a point, but what is commonly called "libertarianism" is basically just an appendage of fascism at this point. It has been absorbed into the hodge-podge of ideologies conservatism has grafted onto itself over the years in a desperate attempt to stay relevant, much like mainline Christianity and classical liberalism. I sincerely doubt 1 in 100 self-professed "libertarians" have any principles left whatsoever.

     AnthonyJK-Admin repeated this.
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     AnthonyJK-Admin (anthonyjk@mastodon.redgarterclub.com)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:14:06 JST AnthonyJK-Admin

     in reply to

     • Xauri'EL Zwaan

     @XauriEL

     Naaaah....I give Nozick and Hayak NO points whatsoever.

     And, western "libertarianism" has effectively been absorbed into the broader Right fascism as the flip side of Calvinist/Puritan nationalism; as a means of the privileged to escape the wrath of fascist laws imposed on the rest of us.

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     Ciggy Bringer of Smoke (ciggysmokebringer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:22:32 JST Ciggy Bringer of Smoke

     in reply to

     @AnthonyJK I think it makes some amount of sense as a frictional position where one is trying to mediate their own individualism and concept of individual liberty against the bare minimum of State apparatus and any attendant social structures that might plug gaps or suffice.

     When I was in DSA, I got along swimmingly with Libsocs, and it wasnt because of explicit objective or ideas but more of the vibe and mediating the limits of a necessary State apparatus.

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     AnthonyJK-Admin (anthonyjk@mastodon.redgarterclub.com)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:23:21 JST AnthonyJK-Admin

     in reply to

     • Ciggy Bringer of Smoke

     @ciggysmokebringer

     Which is exactly why I added the disclaimer "almost". 😆

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     Ciggy Bringer of Smoke (ciggysmokebringer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 02-Sep-2023 15:37:06 JST Ciggy Bringer of Smoke

     in reply to

     @AnthonyJK True Facts, I had flirtations with Right Libertarianism in the 2000s, like full on "I love Market Economics and Fuck The State" and buddies with self professed Von Mises enthusiasts, but the thing that always that kept me away were four big things -

     1. The misanthropy - like they simply really dont like other people and consider others de facto threat which, like, is not me, shy as I am

     2. The fixation on weird things for no goddamn reason, like age of consent, where its clearly sicko self dealing, or Gold Standard where its like, we are past an irrevocable point, get over it and actually understand how to manage fiat from a Stateless position if possible.

     3. Might makes right but dont you dare connect with anyone to make might. Just absolutely absurd how their framework can't allow for association benefits unless they're at the barrel of a gun with resources on the line from a dominant position.

     4. Straight up racism and the absence of nearly of anyone but white men with some kind of technocratic aspiration, at least in my orbit on the west coast.