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   narcissus (riotlinguistics@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:29:59 JST narcissus

   "Rape is not about sex, rape is about power" will always fail as an analysis. Rape is about power because gender and sexuality in a patriarchal society are inherently about power already. rape is about power not just because it is violence, but precisely because it is sexual.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:29:57 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • violetmadder

     @violetmadder The reason people are saying this at all is to refute people who claim someone can't be raped if they're not attractive, or that someone rapes just because they're horny.

     I haven't seen a problem with this, so I thank you both for digging into this, and for the point that rape out of negligence, where the perpetrator does not see that it's rape, happens exactly out of both power and sex, privilege and entitlement plus desire.

     I have nothing to add, but a lot to think about.
     @RiotLinguistics

   • Embed this notice
     violetmadder (violetmadder@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:29:58 JST violetmadder

     in reply to

     @RiotLinguistics I'm always wondering, why are people saying this shit as if it can't be both??

   • Embed this notice
     narcissus (riotlinguistics@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:30:00 JST narcissus

     in reply to

     • violetmadder
     • boundsocket

     @boundsocket @violetmadder

     "rape is about power" doesn't mean "rape is motivated by an internal, subjectively felt motivation of desiring power" (although that may be and is often a component of the motivation).

     in cases where the perp did not even know it happened, that is about power. they are capable of not knowing it happened overwhelmingly because of the conditions of social power that empower them and restrict the victim's agency, irrespective of their own personal sense of power. All rape is always about power, regardless of the individual rapist's motivations

     I've written about the topic at length here:

     https://immerautonom.noblogs.org/en-US/sex-desire-and-power/

     and here:
     https://immerautonom.noblogs.org/en-US/sex-desire-and-violence-ii/

   • Embed this notice
     violetmadder (violetmadder@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:30:00 JST violetmadder

     in reply to

     • boundsocket

     @RiotLinguistics @boundsocket Very good points. The negligent, 'accidental' type of rape wouldn't even be possible if the victims had enough power to make their objections known-- many don't even have the power to recognize their own discomfort as valid or see their own bodily autonomy as anything they have the right to defend in the first place. To rape somebody and not only get away with it but get away with having NO CLUE they did anything wrong means the power imbalance is so pervasive and huge it's entirely taken for granted. Rapists rarely need to use physical beatdowns when cultural ones already did most of the work.

     clacke likes this.
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     boundsocket (boundsocket@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:30:08 JST boundsocket

     in reply to

     • violetmadder

     @violetmadder @RiotLinguistics my only caveat here is that many types of rape are about power but also some are more negligence(perp didnt even know it happened type situations) or desperation(when power dynamics are reversed and the goal is more self image or economic or social, think child soldiers)

     the later is still about power just not necessarily motivated by desire for power by the rapist and the former could be mediated by power but its not motivated

   • Embed this notice
     narcissus (riotlinguistics@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 20:30:23 JST narcissus

     in reply to

     • violetmadder
     • boundsocket

     @violetmadder @boundsocket indeed. the ability to not know someone doesn't want to have sex with you while you are already doing it is, in and of itself, power

     clacke likes this.