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   FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:44:57 JST FinalOverdrive

   • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

   @anarchopunk_girl The eternal struggle of being an individualist anarchist: resisting the temptation to correct people about free market stuff.

   I silently paraphrase what Gandhi said about Christianity: It'd be a nice idea.

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:44:56 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @FinalOverdrive felt

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:45:43 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @FinalOverdrive the amount of times I've wanted to argue the merits of anticapitalist markets, or point out that commodity production and exchange aren't inherently evil, or question the large scale workability, and implications to individual autonomy, of ancoomer stockpile communism

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     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:46:02 JST FinalOverdrive

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @anarchopunk_girl Or...even just how they have nothing but the empty wish of having everything completely free at every point of production and consumption without the slightest idea of how to make that work.

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:52:54 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @FinalOverdrive yeah. It's really frustrating honestly because if you ever question the anarchist communist desire to have everything free at every point in production and consumption and distribution they turn on you vehemently because they've learned to associate any form of money and monetary exchange with the horror that is capitalism, and will refuse to consider something like for instance a hybrid economy. (Where primary production and distribution of resources is organized through a market and then federations of decentralized Mutual Aid networks can act as an overlay economy to redistribute things if necessary to ensure that values and people that aren't legible to the market are still taken care of and any male distributions of resources that the market may produce have a correction mechanism that is directly in the power of the people.)

     They don't seem to see that there's just fundamentally no way to make all of the calculations and communicate all of the information necessary, or spontaneously and in a decentralized manner organize all the things necessary for a complex large-scale economy to work efficiently, without using some form of monetary exchange. Nor do they see that there are so many ways to get around the problems with needing money and a market that people talk about, through stuff like occupancy and use possession, worker self management, and mutual credit associations to help get around the poverty trap.

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:53:05 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @FinalOverdrive yup. Precisely.

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     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:53:06 JST FinalOverdrive

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @anarchopunk_girl And the hardest part? They're almost always speaking from a place of real deprivation, struggle, and desperation.

     So I honestly can't be mad at them.

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     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 05:55:59 JST FinalOverdrive

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @anarchopunk_girl So, I learned the hard way, it's wrong for me to tell me why they're wrong. They're not in a situation where they can think clearly about it.

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 06:06:09 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @FinalOverdrive yeah I think it's somewhat Justified for a lot of people especially when suffering from real deprivation or oppression to just be like desperate animals trying to claw their way out of the cage they're in and it's not really our job to step in and be like "now now, how impractical", as long as they are generally headed in the right direction and not going to hurt anything. We can deal with questions of whose idea of anarchism works better after we abolish the state and capitalism and can try all these things out in different (if overlapping and intermingling) communities. This is one reason why I tend to fall on the " anarchist without adjectives" side.

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     livinghell (livinghell@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 24-Aug-2023 06:16:21 JST livinghell

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @anarchopunk_girl @FinalOverdrive I mean, this way of thinking about social structures comes from contemplation, as opposed to real struggle. So, you may think this is in some sense better for making models later to be tested out and "to make it work" as if building a machine. But "social structue" or market for that matter, are metaphors. If we are gonna do something, real people are gonna do it. For example, i wouldn't put my life at risk trusting in any kind of ethical trade principle will "work out" or any inherent rationality of arbitrary remuneration. I can trust people, i can't trust rules i know are going to be cheated. I don't see anybody trusting any kind of remuneration without a man in uniform putting a gun to their heads. Including individualist anarchists. Except those that are gullible enough to be scammed by crypto. Only really existing currency is built on violence and manipulation, rest is hypothetical. People putting their lives at risk for their belief in equality is not hypothetical.