warthog9
Yeah, Gmail is not a great e-mail provider, speaking as someone who doesn't use Gmail and is dealing with an absolutely ridiculous mess trying to get Gmail to actually accept e-mail from not Gmail.
Also if you are subscribed to Vger lists, and use Gmail, please take your lack of getting e-mail up with Gmail because I'm doing what I can to get it through, but they are actively blocking it right now.
ShadSterling
@c0dec0dec0de @siderea @dalias @warthog9 everything about how spam filters work is bad for users. Mail should either be delivered or not, senders should know which happened and why, and recipients should be in control of what is and isn’t delivered to them. None of it should be subject to the whims of a chaotic score based on a secret formula.
Rich Felker
@ShadSterling @c0dec0dec0de @siderea @warthog9 Absolutely 💯 and that's how my mail system works. It live pipes to a process owned by the recipient during SMTP delivery and that process can accept or reject with exit codes that give the sender a temporary or permanent error, leaving it their mail system's responsibility to retry or report error. No legacy intermediary relaying nonsense.
0xC0DEC0DE07E8
@siderea @dalias @warthog9 this is like the opposite of Microsoft’s approach which seems to not count moving emails to the Junk folder the same as reporting emails as Junk - I get a lot of spam in my Hotmail account.
Siderea, Sibylla Bostoniensis
I'm under the impression that gmail's Bayesian spam filter is what I'll term a Demented Ouroborus Algorithm:
• emails are marked as spam and put in the junk folder where the user never sees them
• because the email is in the junk folder, the algorithm takes that as confirmation that it is spam
• The algorithm then increases the spam likelihood score from that sender on that basis, sending more of their emails into their Gmail recipients' junk folders
• lather, rinse, repeat
Siderea, Sibylla Bostoniensis
So if you don't have a problem, you don't have a problem, but if you have even so much as one person sending your email into their junk folder, or if one happens to wind up there due to the phase of the moon and the crankiness of the algorithm, it rapidly spirals completely out of control, and you have a very big problem.
Rich Felker
@warthog9 I'm curious to find out what's behind this, as someone who sends non-gmail mail to gmail and so far has not had problems, even without adopting the draconian dkim/dmarc stuff (and having very liberal spf).
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