Thomas 🔭🕹️
The discussion[1] about replies as an abuse vector is so funny.
A bunch of techies trying to find a technical solution to a social problem.
Guys, IT DOESN'T WORK to ban replies or change replies or ban quote posts or "do it right this time" or whatever.
When there's humans, there's abuse.
The only way to deal with it is moderation; that is ban or block instances and users that are abusive.
[1] https://toot.thoughtworks.com/@mfowler/110841059611104925
Thomas 🔭🕹️
Because I saw it in the replies: no, having no quote posts doesn't remove abuse (as evidenced by abusive behavior in replies).
We actually should have quote posting, so people could meta-comment on discussions (hey, like I'm doing here!).
It's fine to have it. Not having it just makes it harder to follow stuff and keep things disjointed (e.g. no way to see all quote posts for a post).
We already have moderation tools for abusive accounts and servers.
Thomas 🔭🕹️
You wouldn’t even prevent abuse if you literally had a social network of just exactly one person.
All people are at least sometimes unkind or abusive to themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@jkohlmann yeah that’s always the end goal, it’s to avoid responsibility and the hard work it takes to make communities function
Joseph Kohlmann
@thomasfuchs At some point, it becomes either implicitly or explicitly the goal to *avoid* addressing moderation by way of technical discussions like this.
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@swelljoe I'm not saying "just block them", I'm saying that human moderation cannot be replaced by implementation details.
Joe Cooper 💾
@thomasfuchs jwz's argument is that blocking in Mastodon doesn't work in an intuitive or effective way, and I'm inclined to agree. So, saying "just block them" doesn't answer his complaint, because his complaint is that we, as individuals using the platform, don't really have the kind of block functionality he wants.
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@bitcrush_io Like running any community, it's hard work and takes responsibility to be kind to yourself. :)
bitcrush.io
@thomasfuchs Yes, hello, I would like to know how to defederate from myself?
Silo
Been fighting toxic people online for a long time.
Thomas, there is also an industrial player that should be accounted for. They don't seem to operate here *yet* but trollfarms are a massive issue too and trollfarm accounts can be identified too.
When they arrive and use automation to boost toxic actors is when it gets ugly and requires some tooling at the ready.
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@silo_bear We already have tooling for moderation, and of course it could always be better.
But there's also a lot of magical thinking with developers about using technology to solve social problems.
Instead of thinking in technological solutions that mostly involve implementation details, we should think how we can work together as humans to get rid of trolls and abusers (and then build tools to support us).
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@silo_bear An example of a tool that's missing: shared blocklists, ideally using human moderators to prevent abuse of the tool.
E.g. Blocktogether was a great tool (if imperfect) back in Twitter's heyday.
Silo
Super true, at the end of the day we're still dealing with clever humans, for evil or good
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@antonpodolsky yeah it would be nice to have this as real feature (including proper notifications to OP etc.)
Anton Podolsky
@thomasfuchs Prototyping reblogs.
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