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Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:24 JST Strypey
in reply to
@jeffcliff
> What you're really against is people disagreeing with eachother, and in particular people disagreeing with you
I agree this attitude is out there. I disagree with it as much as you do. But if it was true of me - or the mods of my instance - I wouldn't even be seeing your posts my friend; )
You're slaughtering a strawman.
@BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @nazi_accusations @Lotema

In conversation about a year ago from gnusocial.jp permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:26 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff
  > Slurs and threats are part of human communication
  Maybe. By the same logic, you could say punching and killing people when one disagrees with them is also "part of human communication". So?
  People are entitled to protect themselves against both physical *and* verbal abuse, both individually *and* collectively.
  @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @nazi_accusations @Lotema
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:27 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  > I chose the phrase "Nazi bar" for a reason, web search it
  
  Yeah, I know what you're referring to and I dispute its relevance. The fediverse is not a bar, and again: if there are SO many nazis that they can drown out the entire fediverse, you've got a bigger problem on your hands than a mere moderation problem.
  
  >. You're taking an ideological position, not a situational one.
  
  > Which is just the inverse of the equally impractical 'permission required from admin before federation' position.
  
  :yes:
  
  > reason to make everyone in the verse manually block every spammer.
  
  note the slight of hand where 'spam' replaced what we were actually talking about
  
  >. Not when admins can block them for everyone on the server, and block entire domains that harbour their accounts.
  
  One persons spam is another persons viagra bill. What makes it spam is whether the person wants to receive it or not. But we're not talking about spam.
  
  > By the same token, there's no sensible reason to make everyone who speaks up for reproductive liberty, manually block the mouthbreathers that react to that with slurs and threats.
  
  Now we're talking about reproductive liberty all of a sudden?
  
  Slurs and threats are part of human communication. If you're getting them it means you're pissing someone off. What you're really against is people disagreeing with eachother, and in particular people disagreeing with you.
  
  > Which means the right to exclude spammers or mouthbreathers from everyone else's servers, and Nazis from your bar.
  
  Except the fediverse is not a bar, and in practice what this means is massive blocklists of the politically unpopular. @nazi_accusations shows exactly what this argument is used for: for repressing *everyone* left and right.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:28 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff
  I'm all for freedom of expression. I defend people''s right to set up an instance, say whatever they want, and federate that out to be heard. But for exactly the same reason - respect for universal human rights - I'm all for voluntary association. Which means the right to exclude spammers or mouthbreathers from everyone else's servers, and Nazis from your bar.
  (3/3)
  @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @Lotema
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:29 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff
  The point is, there's no sensible reason to make everyone in the verse manually block every spammer. Not when admins can block them for everyone on the server, and block entire domains that harbour their accounts.
  By the same token, there's no sensible reason to make everyone who speaks up for reproductive liberty, manually block the mouthbreathers that react to that with slurs and threats.
  (2/3)
  @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @Lotema
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:31 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  > Just look at FarceBook and Titter.
  
  ...both massively successful to the extent they didn't censor and let *users* organize their own damn social lives rather than decide that for them.
  
  Also wrt 'nazi bar' how many nazis do you think are out there? If they are *so* numerous that they could actually dominate the fediverse you've got bigger problems than dogpiling.
  
  > who don't want to see it,
  
  You can choose whether you want to see it. It's called the block button.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:31 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff
  > how many nazis do you think are out there?
  I chose the phrase "Nazi bar" for a reason, web search it. You're taking an ideological position, not a situational one. Which is just the inverse of the equally impractical 'permission required from admin before federation' position.
  (1/3)
  @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @Lotema
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:32 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff
  > But because it's so broken by internal censorship this won't happen
  Cry me a river. People not being able to get spam and other low-grade, high-volume nonsense delivered to those who don't want to see it, is a feature not a bug. Without it, any social network quickly turns into either a multi-level marketing conference, or a Nazi bar, or a horrific combination of both. Just look at FarceBook and Titter.
  @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield @Lotema
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:33 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  > . But just doing nothing, and letting people get abused and chased out of the verse by griefers, isn't a viable option.
  
  If the network functions as an effective communication medium people *will* be drawn back into it, as the existence of such a network is incredibly useful. If it *worked* you wouldn't be able to practice law or hold public office without a fediverse account. But because it's so broken by internal censorship this won't happen.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:35 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  We do need better ways of doing this than the 'shoot first, ask questions never' FediBlock approach. But just doing nothing, and letting people get abused and chased out of the verse by griefers, isn't a viable option.
  (2/2)
  @jeffcliff @Lotema @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 11:20:36 JST Strypey
  @jeffcliff
  > fediblock is doing grave damage to the reputation of the fediverse, by keeping people from being able to connect eachother
  OTOH it also helps to keep certain people (of various kinds) from being dogpiled by hate mobs as soon as they walk in the door. For those of us who do understand what's going on, this is a feature, not a bug, see:
  https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/110689500577614547
  (1/2)
  @Lotema @BrettCoulstock @jedmund @vivsmythe @raikas @coreyf @adamgreenfield
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink

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