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   crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:44:49 JST crafti

   So the problem/pattern I see here is that people pose projects/platforms like Mastodon and Linux as alternatives to things like Twitter and Windows, when people come to try it out, they:

   • are disappointed it’s not like what they were using
   • are pushed away by existing users
   • get scolded for not being said existing community (not having prior knowledge, etc.)

   This is a common pattern in FOSS and… to be honest… fuck you all. This is why we still sit around complaining about proprietary shit, because you can’t think for the average pleb for once, and instead develop things for your developer buddies with the expectation that we must pray to RMS each night.
   
   RE: https://mas.to/users/kissane/statuses/110793942888550843

   • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:56:24 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to
     @crafti not really, the problem is that often expect to be serviced for free, being spoiled by proprietary stuff that spoils them in exchange for ad revenue, they want same service in exchange for nothing and refuse to lower their quality standards, the want solutions to unknown problems but don't even provide constructive suggestions. And people who advocate for normies either propose and defend nonsensical changes that literally no one including normies cares about or propose features that were made for sole purpose of milking people more and more.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:14:09 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

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     @crafti I mean... ripping off while maintaining level of quality ain't simple, there are things we don't uderstand fully, you'd think making super mario bros clone is easy until you realise that you made physics completely wrong and it doesn't quite feel the way it should. And you can say it feels even better but next person would say it feels worse, the goalposts are not well defined and we don't know what we are doing, some would want something the same but without the flaws, but others won't settle for anything except perfect copy.
     
     I don't think anybody is pushing people away, it is just clashes of culture. Some people are terminally online, some people are terminally offline, some watch tv too much, some are just tired. You can't expect literally everyone to get along, that's just how society is.
     
     And it goes deeper - pleroma provides options, but someone might say there's too many, someone would say software should not provide options at all, and yet another person will not even check if options are a thing.
     
     And not to mention, a lot of software wasn't exactly developed as a replacement for something else, some things are just runaway success and creators are simply not ready for it or ill equipped.
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     crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:14:10 JST crafti

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj That is fair, but I definitely care about trying to appeal to people who cause us to complain that we have to stick around with companies.
     
     I see the solution to be as simple as ripping off the proprietary product while maintaining the same if not better quality.
     
     I get that we aren't paid and users suck but complaining about companies existing while pushing away people? That's what angers me and what I see as hypocrisy.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:18:36 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

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     @crafti algorithmic timelines will always be biased towards something. Making those and making server software and client software has almost nothing in common.
     
     People who make and maintain telephone networks and people who make yellowpages are two completely different groups, and they barely know how other side work. You don't go to McDonald's and ask janitor to make you fries. You can't expect news anchor to know how NTSC works.
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     crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:18:38 JST crafti

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj The blog post I'm referencing had constructive criticism as far as I see. Those aren't technical users but they definitely had wishes of what they wanted and I don't think those are too hard to come up with a solution for.
     
     Building some kind of algorithm and better discoverability must be possible in some way, right?
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     crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:19:19 JST crafti

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj Totally agree. But I don't think we are that far off, when I see elk.zone, I definitely know we are almost there making a Twitter replacement, for harboring refugees.
     
     At least that can be helpful for migrating people away from Twitter.
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:29:07 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti chronological timelines are easier to implement, it's pretty straightforward in fact. Algorithmic timelines... im not sure if there's even open... information on how those are supposed to work at all, it's like one of those things like high frequency trading algorithms that people make in secret basements and refuse to talk about them or else it will break.
     
     One thing I know for certain - algorithmic timelines require feedback for calibration and feedback means more tracking, the more tracking the better it works. Now everyone, raise your hand if you want tracking? Raise another if you want to be responsible for implementing tracking.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:29:08 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe chronological timelines are just as biased and id rather have several things biased towards different things than just the 1 with a bias that clearly doesnt work for a lot of people

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:37:06 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to
     @crafti don't worry, big companies are losing users to soil and grass, as they are unable to deal with anger and stress of being more and more mentally exploited and be forced to touch grass.... or be buried in soil after a heart attack.
     
     Pleroma doesn't really cater to anyone, it's just that it's so easy to use and deploy that everyone can use it, even including people you don't like. It's just that certain sorts of folk are more loud and more willing to cooperate and tolerate others... at least for awhile.
     
     Cooperation ain't easy, you know, and people often won't get along unless forced to. Big corps have power hierarchy and HR department to deal with that, we don't.
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     crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:37:07 JST crafti

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj Well, if I had a stupid example it would be that we have Pleroma and Soapbox. That together is one package which caters to specific user demographic.
     
     Bias is definitely hard, cater to the user and they end up in some extremist bubble (that represents their interests/opinion), cater to the instance, and the user might be uninterested.
     
     But this is all theoretical, it doesn't mean we should stop here. If we sit around and just discuss and not at least try to come up with something, we'll miss the next Twitter or (insert social platform here) migration.
     
     I really just want to have the big platforms just lose users to something that we all benefit from. Even if it means we will attract trash (but even that we should be able to handle).
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:39:46 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti I personally used twitter in like 2010 for couple of hours just to talk to my friends, and I never used tiktok so I wouldn't know how it works. You can always propose changes so foss projects and also hey, followbots exist for such purposes too.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:39:47 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe theres a couple of assumptions there, like 0 concious input for discoverability from the user and instead having to stalk them for it, when a lot of people rightly dont want to be discoverable also
     
     so even just self assignable user categories/tags like ppl already put in their bios, that servers could list when asked could help with getting something basic together, and thats just me thinking about it for 5 seconds like it really cant be that hard unless we try to copy tiktok or similar 1:1

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:49:23 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti starting from scratch is NEVER easy.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:49:25 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe id be closest to just making a new 'fedi' backend from scratch, tho itd probably be closer to original misskey to mastodon the way its featureset would have to be to justify making something new instead of expanding existing ones

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:54:37 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti others had entire teams behind them, but you'll be alone.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:54:38 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe i dont expect it to be easy, profitable or fun but i expect it to be doable given others have managed in the past

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:59:23 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti it's not about time nor money tho.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:59:24 JST desea

     in reply to

     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe im in no rush, have stable income and decent living conditions so meh

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:05:08 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti brainpower and diverstiy of skills and knowledge.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:05:10 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe then what is it about?

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:11:09 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti it's harder than you think, especially if you're starting from scratch.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:11:10 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe hm, meh i can aquire skills and knowledge on the way

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:13:37 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti I mean, do you want to waste 30 years working on it for free?
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:13:40 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe worst case it goes nowhere and i "waste" some time learning new skills i can apply elsewhere so meh

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:17:11 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti yeah if it's gonna be a side thing make it a 90+
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:17:15 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe yknow what, why not, 30 years is a stretch to begin with but if i just have it as a sidething i occasionally pour time into i dont see the harm

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:20:30 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti yeah well the problem that you just want to mess with it, you don't seem to care much about result.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:20:31 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe gonna designate an heir and pass it like a clan duty lets fucking goooo

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:24:50 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti yeah, my goals are more realistic and flexible and I prefer to cooperate wish ppl.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 03:24:51 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe i have a goal, i'll get however far i get pursuing that, can you say more for yourself?

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 04:01:22 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti you want to start from scratch instead of extending existing solutions. Starting from scratch means essentially working alone until you get other people interested in contributing, and most people usually have same idea as you - start from scratch. If you extend existing solutions you already have people who work on the project helping you.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 04:01:23 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe neat. Im a bit curious about the team part though, you said i was gonna be alone on this earlier but afaik i havent really indicated anything like that earlier

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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 04:08:02 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • desea
     @desea @crafti that's probably... not how it works but worth the try.
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     desea@snug.moe's status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 04:08:04 JST desea

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     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @hj@shigusegubu.club @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe hm, so youre saying i should find other people who are unhappy with existing fedi software and get together to make something new?