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   Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:30:18 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

   Just got hit with:

   "But can you prove ChatGPT is *not* intelligent in the human sense?"

   Oh my that old chestnut. 🙄

   I am not making a claim, I am merely rejecting somebody else's claim that ChatGPT is intelligent in the human sense.

   The burden of proof is on whoever claims that ChatGPT is intelligent in the human sense. That proof would also need to be accompanied by a clear, unambiguous, testable definition of what "intelligent" means, that ideally includes humans but excludes calculators.

   • Matthew Lyon and novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:30:17 JST silverwizard

     in reply to
     @rysiek my favourite argument is "intelligence isn't well defined! So it must be"
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     Hart of the Wud (praxeology@post.lurk.org)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:31:06 JST Hart of the Wud

     in reply to

     @rysiek
     “The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.”
     ― Edsger W. Dijkstra

     silverwizard likes this.
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     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:31:07 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     Saying "LLMs are intelligent because they can learn" is like saying "computer programs have legs because they can run." :ablobcatcoffee:

   • Embed this notice
     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:49:21 JST silverwizard

     in reply to
     @rysiek oh yeah! I remember that! It was excellent!
   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jul-2023 23:49:22 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • silverwizard

     @silverwizard yeah I blogged about that:
     https://rys.io/en/165.html

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     Jesse (misc@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 01:20:13 JST Jesse

     in reply to

     • silverwizard

     @rysiek @silverwizard I noticed this flip. At first it was the “AI skeptics” noting the failure to define intelligence, but suddenly I started hearing that more often as a talking point from the “AI believers”. So annoying!

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     PiTau (pitau@mstdn.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:34:48 JST PiTau

     in reply to

     @rysiek Once I tried to roleplay with ChatGPT discussing its CHIP8 emulator project implementation.

     ChatGPT presented a sensible although not the best approach in my opinion until I started asking why OOP. At one point ChatGPT proposed that each pixel of the monochromatic display could be represented by an object aggregated in line objects aggregated in display object... Intelligent my ass, it simply mixed oop fundamentals and CHIP8 specs without any regard for what they are.

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     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 02:34:48 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • PiTau

     @PiTau @rysiek that's the funniest shit I've ever heard

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     silverwizard (silverwizard@convenient.email)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 00:30:17 JST silverwizard

     in reply to

     • flaeky pancako
     @fleeky @rysiek my advice would be find out what a neuron is then. Neural Networks model neurons the way a balloon models a lung. Different forms, different design, different purpose, but you might be able to use it to explain it to a child.
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     flaeky pancako (fleeky@prsm.space)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 00:30:18 JST flaeky pancako

     in reply to

     @rysiek the surprising thing about neural networks and LLMs is one of complexity and emergence.. what we are debating right now is did the mountain actually move or is it just a philosophical illusion?

     I still am a fan of neuro symbolic systems as a necessary part of the path for thinking machines but at the same time I think computation is simplified thought, otoh the whole debate gets very deep very fast..

   • Embed this notice
     Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 (rysiek@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 00:30:19 JST Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • flaeky pancako

     @fleeky a model is not the thing it models. A map is not the territory.

     Moving a mountain on a map does not mean a mountain actually moved in the territory.

     And I am not even getting into how hilariously simplified the neural network model is compared to the actual brain — suffice it to say it completely ignores all the biochemistry and all the stuff actual neurons float about in.

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     flaeky pancako (fleeky@prsm.space)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 00:30:20 JST flaeky pancako

     in reply to

     @rysiek an easy one is that neural networks are a simplified model of neurons , otoh if you believe in substrate less intelligence and consciousness the argument gets more muddy?