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   マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 21:01:00 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

   I didn't have high hopes from the slightly clickbaity title, but found this quite a reasonable, well balanced article.

   "To polyglots, foreign languages are Mount Everests daring us to climb them. But to most people, they are just a barrier to get to the other side of."

   "Learning to genuinely speak a new language will hardly be unknown. It will continue to beckon, for instance, for those actually relocating to a new country. And it will persist with people who want to engage with literature or media in the original language, as well as those of us who find pleasure in mastering these new codes just because they are “there.” In other words, it will likely become an artisanal pursuit, of interest to a much smaller but more committed set of enthusiasts."

   #Translation #MachineTranslation #Language #LanguageLearning

   https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/25/opinion/translation-apps-foreign-languages.html?unlocked_article_code=ZPiaG-vh0nKT6EIPtzXl7g94GitTI9HLjTmB5lULwyv6cq5SPrkcr-WtXPKb6t_O57sBAFolYN-3b5qQHGTTNyY1whoHBtteywUeMLwcTUyi5VbiHBUCLqSzUOOdAWlp9kKrgloQDsXLPhLf_7g4OfMDKtgMdI3XCxn7heTE6GDo8Ql7pjXiGIi1pnvz5sGaSYWqkcYRJRq-eKi11S0tat4988LalEKfplz-XPaNME0HLNZvwKwoi5yHYYsvoWCh_OkZlYKG-u0bRzrNlnxcdxP3ga0cftwed_PU_42XF8_tpQYQ-5wjjGvR5iGD-fTlzGu5RKPC3PGT4wBTJxNioJ1oHm7A2zaNlydcaQ&smid=url-share

   • Embed this notice
     マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Thursday, 27-Jul-2023 00:37:59 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

     in reply to

     • Robert Belton

     @shiawase I don't disagree with any of these points, and TBH I don't think the author of that piece would either, he specifically mentions “utilitarian purposes”.

     The question of how to leverage MT and AI in learning languages would definitely be interesting to get into. FWIW, I find GPT-4 quite useful for asking it questions about Japanese grammar or asking it to rewrite sentences using certain grammar patterns…

   • Embed this notice
     Robert Belton (shiawase@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 27-Jul-2023 00:38:00 JST Robert Belton

     in reply to

     @mario
     Subeditors and headlines eh?!

     In a utilitarian sense he’s probably right. I’m not going to relearn French or start German just to read a toot. I think it polite to at least try to attempt the language on holidays.

     For low risk & prosaic tasks MT will be fine. Not so for medical, legal or diplomatic use. Both Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima (at least in part) were caused by mistranslations.

     Absent a Babelfish, speaking a language will be better than a stop start MT experience.

   • Embed this notice
     Robert Belton (shiawase@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 27-Jul-2023 00:38:00 JST Robert Belton

     in reply to

     @mario
     I’m saddened by the short sightedness of shutdowns of language programs in schools. Usually to divert money to stem. I’m glad I had the experience of learning languages, even if only to schoolboy levels.
     I have a calculator can I skip maths class?

     A better question might be how to leverage MT (& other tools) in learning languages.

     It’s also a bit rich coming from a native English speaker. A dominant language that most of the world is expected to learn.

     /end rant/