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   chjara is here now (chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 08:09:15 JST chjara is here now

   how do people have so many tabs. i always have one fedi tab open, up to a dozen tabs open for what i'm doing, and maybe a few but like 3 max i forget to close

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 08:09:13 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @chjara Number of tab actually doesn't matters that much, browsers engines typically only garbage collect on memory pressure, so if you want the browser to use less RAM you need to shove it something like a cgroup.
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     chjara is here now (chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 08:09:14 JST chjara is here now

     in reply to

     people be like "waa browser uses so much memory" and then have thousands of tabs

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:21:59 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     @lispi314 @chjara Tab unloading was a thing in Firefox… maybe got thrown away in the get "There is <del>only</del><ins>no</ins> XUL" disaster for extensions API.
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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:22:00 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan @chjara Tab unloading (and ability to pin to prevent such) would go a long way.

     That being said, paging to disk is an option so... one of my qubes does have a ridiculous "get to it eventually" thousand tab browser.

     Some of that was waiting on me to make crawlers/extractors with persistent queues for some sites though which I'm doing so that can slowly go down.

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:26:20 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • 𝟙𝔸
     @iatendril @lispi314 @chjara Well that's running everything in a fuckton of VMs for you, I'd rather use SeL4 with Linux compat for this kind of reason, much lighter to have a proper software architecture.
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     𝟙𝔸 (iatendril@snug.moe)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:26:22 JST 𝟙𝔸

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • LisPi

     @lispi314@mastodon.top @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online QubesOS uses way too much memory though.

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     𝟙𝔸 (iatendril@snug.moe)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:26:24 JST 𝟙𝔸

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • LisPi

     @lispi314@mastodon.top @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online Fellow QubesOS user?

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:35:38 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • 𝟙𝔸
     @lispi314 @chjara @iatendril Sounds more like Qubes doesn't want to use it. Which is fine, I don't want to use Qubes, for both technical and social (trust in it's developers) ones.
   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:35:39 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @lanodan @chjara @iatendril There's no strict reason for not running everything on Qubes as unikernels with similar overhead save for the fact the dev-hours needed to actually set that up haven't been allocated & spent.

     seL4 also has issues that prevent practical use (context: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3894).

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:36 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • 𝟙𝔸
     @lispi314 @iatendril @chjara Let's be honest: Basically everything that works on a modern machine but C is memory-safe.
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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:37 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @iatendril @lanodan @chjara A lot more so than C.

     FFI-aside, Common Lisp is memory-safe so long as you don't explicitly use a declaration that you don't care about safety (which there are very few/no legitimate uses for in my opinion).

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     𝟙𝔸 (iatendril@snug.moe)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:38 JST 𝟙𝔸

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • LisPi

     @lispi314@mastodon.top @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online CL is trust worthy?

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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:39 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @iatendril @lanodan @chjara Most of the performance downsides for me are IO related and I just don't trust other systems enough.

     I'd have to rewrite Xpra in CL if I wanted to trust it.

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     𝟙𝔸 (iatendril@snug.moe)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:41 JST 𝟙𝔸

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • LisPi

     @lispi314@mastodon.top @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online It just doesn't have enough man power. My contribution to X input proxy driver is still not merged, now that I quit using QubesOS because of performance issues.

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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:52:42 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @lanodan @chjara @iatendril My read on the situation is that it's primarily a technical state & qubes dev allocation issue, but fair enough.

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:56:26 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • LisPi
     • 𝟙𝔸
     @lispi314 @chjara @iatendril And C is pretty much still there because you're pretty much stuck to C if you want to do system programming on Unixes (lot of APIs are libc-only).
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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:56:27 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @lanodan @chjara @iatendril There are a bunch of others that aren't, but most unsafe languages that actually see any use are legacy because we finally started collectively learning our lesson (some learned it 50+ years sooner than others though).

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     LisPi (lispi314@mastodon.top)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:59:41 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 𝟙𝔸

     @iatendril @lanodan @chjara A safe crash is fine if you architectured your software properly to be resilient in the face of disruption.

     Since you can never guarantee the powergrid isn't shit wherever your users are (among other possible sources of disruption), you should always ensure persistent IO for instance is transactional.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     𝟙𝔸 (iatendril@snug.moe)'s status on Monday, 24-Jul-2023 09:59:42 JST 𝟙𝔸

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • LisPi

     @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @lispi314@mastodon.top @chjara@meow.tuxcrafting.online "memory-safe" doesn't mean shit if the software is OS. It also need to not crash.