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your new favourite fungus (duponin@udongein.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:46 JST 
your new favourite fungus
if there’s no CA for Gemini’s TLS, how can one ensure there’s not MITM?
like when the certificate is renewed-
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:38 JST 
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin here's a scenario: you have a home network and a smartphone. you open an account at a bank and you want to do online banking. you need that to be secure so you need a key relationship between your personal device and your bank. imagine an app on your phone that keeps keys for domain names. it has a private key on it in the secure element that represents only you. you carry your phone into the physical bank. they motion at a square. You tap your phone on the square and it brings up the app and asks you if you want to add the bank's name. you say yes. It asks if you want to associate your ID with it. you say yes. Your phone gets the bank key and gives the bank your public key via NFC. it sets up a client certificate between the two keys so that each one can absolutely identify the other.
You walk back to your home. You get on your desktop PC and type in the online banking site. It asks you to tap to log in. You tap your phone to your PC. without giving up your key it does the certificate negotiation, and both sides make sure they recognize each other. it generates an ephemeral key and authenticates you to the bank. you now can do online banking without any centralized authority.
obviously you can lose your phone or whatever. there are various ways around this, like you could go back to the bank with your government id and set it up again. or you could have your phone be able to tap six other people's phones and it breaks up your key and if you lost it you can reassemble it by going back to those six friends/family. -
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:38 JST
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin the reason I say you have to kill the appstore is because apple has a death grip on what they allow in their app store and they seem to have a thing against so-called "self-sovereign identity" apps, probably because they are adjacent to cryptocurrencies. the problem is that appstore entries are gatekept by the platform (also the phone OS vendor has ultimate control over your device) on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this. -
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:blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:39 JST 
:blobcatflower:
@Moon @duponin please elaborate further I don't know what you mean -
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:40 JST
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin I can envision systems that would make web of trust easy to use but it involves dissolving things like phone app store control which has a 0% chance of happening. -
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:41 JST
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin you can mitm dns so you'd have to sign your root zone with dnssec and you're back to having a central authority and both the problems of trusting them and getting their pubkey somehow -
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:blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:41 JST
:blobcatflower:
@Moon @duponin abolish domains then ig -
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:blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:42 JST
:blobcatflower:
@Moon @duponin shouldn't that be part of DNS? like with DKIM -
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:43 JST
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin I'm okay with TOFU on Gemini because you probably don't need high security on Gemini and I think the scary self-signed warning on normal web is bad. But man we really need a replacement for the CA system. I read a thing years ago where Jamie Zawinski admitted the system wasn't even well thought out it was just a quick thing they did in Netscape to get around having no possible good way to do it. -
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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:44 JST
Sexy Moon
@methyltheobromine @duponin trust on first use is not worse than a plain unencrypted website or self signed, you shouldn't trust CAs anyway. it's not ideal but it's not really worse and in some ways it's better -
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:blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:44 JST
:blobcatflower:
@Moon @duponin trust on first use is not much better than unencrypted. you can't even tell if a certificate was simply renewed, or if you're being MITM'd. and while CAs aren't ideal, they do a better job at ensuring authenticity than just having no mechanism for that at all. ideal would be kinda what tor does so a CA wouldn't be necessary -
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:blobcatflower: (methyltheobromine@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:11:45 JST
:blobcatflower:
@duponin I asked this and was told "doesn't matter" -
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feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:19:42 JST 
feld
Still waiting for a better phone option to be invented :shepspends: -
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:vepi: tropical edition (goo@dobbs.town)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 21:19:43 JST 
:vepi: tropical edition
@Moon @methyltheobromine @duponin if you're dumb enough to buy an iPhone, you get what you deserve
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