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   tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 20:35:39 JST tyil

   #Thunderbird using 120% CPU again...

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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 20:35:37 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @tyil Why are you using a proprietary email client?
     
     There's so many options, from claws-mail, to rmail, to mutt, to icedove, but you chose a proprietary one?
     
     If you "need" EWS for some reason, evolution is a much better choice.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jul-2023 21:52:53 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • fbievan
     @fbievan @tyil I thought that at first, but then I saw the proprietary plugins it recommends, which includes an EWS plugin and EME digital handcuff support.
     
     In my opinion, free software doesn't recommend proprietary software when you select an option in the account setting to add an EWS account, or it at least notes that proprietary software is about it be installed, rather than only noting that the recommended plugin is "paid".
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     fbievan (fbievan@social.fbievan.live)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jul-2023 21:52:54 JST fbievan

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @tyil @Suiseiseki yeah, it's licensed under the MPL-2.0 which is a free software license.
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     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jul-2023 21:52:56 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Uhh, #Thunderbird is free software.

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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 06-Jul-2023 18:19:35 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
     @jihadjimmy Ehh, trademarks alone don't make software nonfree unless you use those trademarks as a weapon to prevent sharing of the software.
     
     One example would be to restrict verbatim copying of the software with the trademark.
     
     It's acceptable to ask that the software's name be changed if modifications are made, just as long as changing the name is trivial and doesn't have side effects.
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (jihadjimmy@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 06-Jul-2023 18:19:36 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @tyil
     @Suiseiseki
     
     It isn't, the trademark alone already makes it nonfree, and it has components/implementations for major email service provider support that are proprietary.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 06-Jul-2023 18:25:38 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
     @jihadjimmy The trademark is used to make the software nonfree in this case, sure.
     
     I was just pointing out that a trademark alone doesn't always make software nonfree.
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (jihadjimmy@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 06-Jul-2023 18:25:39 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     
     > Ehh, trademarks alone don't make software nonfree unless you use those trademarks as a weapon to prevent sharing of the software.
     
     Which Mozilla did, repeatedly.
     
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian%E2%80%93Mozilla_trademark_dispute
     
     As far as i can recall, these incidents are why GNULinux-libre Trisquel refuses to distribute Mozilla software under their brand.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 21:10:07 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @tyil >The components themselves can be free software, even if they interact with proprietary systems.
     The thing is, the recommended Exchange Web Services (EWS) plugin for thunderbird is proprietary software.
     
     There is a free 3rd party EWS plugin available, but it only seems to work with an old version of Thunderbird
     
     
     Evolution meanwhile has a free EWS plugin, although it sadly runs the proprietary login JavaScript (but if you can figure out how to get the required tokens without running proprietary software, you can provide those to evolution and it won't run the login JavaScript).
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     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 21:10:09 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     @jihadjimmy@the.asbestos.cafe @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Freedom to use, modify and redistribute both original and modified software in source codeI can do all these things with the Thunderbird source code. It is free software.Thunderbird has components and plugins that are necessary for it to interact with Gmail, Outlook and other major proprietary email providers and if it includes those it can't be free softwareIncorrect. The components themselves can be free software, even if they interact with proprietary systems.

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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (jihadjimmy@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 21:10:10 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @tyil
     @Suiseiseki
     
     Freedom to use, modify and redistribute both original and modified software in source code are all four requirements for it to be free software. If you use trademarks to restrict any of these four it is de-facto not fully free software, Thunderbird has components and plugins that are necessary for it to interact with Gmail, Outlook and other major proprietary email providers and if it includes those it can't be free software, if it recommends those then it's doing a disservice to users and it's rather irresponsible. Being mostly free software isn't being free software.
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     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Friday, 07-Jul-2023 21:10:13 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     @jihadjimmy@the.asbestos.cafe @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Trademarks don't make source code non-free. I download the free software source code and compile it myself. Having optional dependencies to non-free software also does not make the source code non-free by default.
     
     Non-free code makes things non-free. And the Thunderbird source code does not contain non-free code as far as I'm aware.