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   Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:14 JST Chris Trottier

   My standpoint is that, not only should all social software support ActivityPub, it should be required by law.
   
   Further to that, all social software should have an account migration path towards and away from it.
   
   No, I’m not saying all servers should federate with each other. What I am saying is that it should be impossible for any one server software to monopolize the network effect.
   
   RE: https://cosocial.ca/users/evan/statuses/110606024253857339

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     iameli (iameli@iame.li)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:09 JST iameli

     in reply to

     • Chester Wisniewski

     @atomicpoet @chetwisniewski Disagree. https://twitter.com/claucece/status/1575155649314697216?s=46&t=G_M8-tp7Eg4Xt7r1rIhzpw

     Signal is an order of magnitude more secure than Matrix by being substantially less ambitious - 1/1 deny able secure chat exclusively. I can imagine a lot of ways federation would cut down on security, especially around deniability.

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     Chester Wisniewski (chetwisniewski@securitycafe.ca)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:10 JST Chester Wisniewski

     in reply to

     @atomicpoet I don't think Federation is really possible with secure protocols like Signal. WhatsApp apparently completed the transition in 2016 https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/

     Chris Trottier repeated this.
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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:10 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Chester Wisniewski

     @chetwisniewski@securitycafe.ca Matrix is pretty damn secure and it federates.

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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:11 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Chester Wisniewski

     @chetwisniewski@securitycafe.ca According to Wikipedia, it uses XMPP. Even if that changes, they should be forced to federate.
     
     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:12 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     Speaking of chat, that should be federated too. A good many chat systems such as WhatsApp are still based on XMPP.
     
     It should be a requirement—by law no less—that WhatsApp federates.

     AnthonyJK-Admin repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Chester Wisniewski (chetwisniewski@securitycafe.ca)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:12 JST Chester Wisniewski

     in reply to

     @atomicpoet What? I'm quite sure that WhatsApp uses the Signal protocol these days.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:23:13 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     Okay, I’ll make two exceptions: peer-to-peer social software and chat.
     
     Nostr is kind of a gray area for me too.
     
     But any social software that’s server-based should absolutely use ActivityPub.

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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:27:10 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     The way you bust monopolies is by enforcing interoperability.
     
     How do I know this?
     
     Almost all successful social networks grow off the back of another.
     
     Facebook grew through email.
     
     YouTube grew through MySpace.
     
     Instagram grew through Tumblr.
     
     Never has any social network grown its network effect spontaneously. Nobody just shows up.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:27:10 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     If you’re using a chat server that requires absolute security, and thus can’t federate, there should be a limit on how big that chat server is allowed to be.
     
     Is it hosting 1 billion people? Too bad, “security” shouldn’t be an excuse to extend your monopoly.
     
     Federate or break yourself up.

     AnthonyJK-Admin repeated this.
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     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:40:15 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Chris J. Karr

     @chris@omgwars.com I agree. When it comes to laws, legislation should be considered with the utmost care.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris J. Karr (chris@omgwars.com)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:40:16 JST Chris J. Karr

     in reply to

     Baking this requirement into law is something that should ONLY be done with the utmost care and clarity.

     For example, does "federate" mean that large servers must actually connect to a significant portion of the external market of users or just be open to it? How does the legal requirement overlap with local moderation choices? Are there exceptions for instances where the rest of the market chooses to NOT federate with them (e.g. Truth Social)?

     "By law" sounds nice, but "Buyer beware" too!

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@calckey.social)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:52:01 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     Some people are saying, “Oh, if you break up WhatsApp’s monopoly on chat, it will be less secure.”
     
     Why is a for-profit, multi-billion dollar enterprise like Meta the arbiter for security?
     
     If WhatsApp’s security requires centralization, take it out of Meta’s hands. Given Meta’s track record with privacy, they should be the last entity protecting WhatsApp’s security.
     
     Either way, I don’t buy the notion that a monopoly should continue in the name of security.
     
     WhatsApp should federate or be broken up.

   • Embed this notice
     Erlend Sogge Heggen (erlend@writing.exchange)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 14:59:17 JST Erlend Sogge Heggen

     in reply to

     • Douglas Rushkoff

     @atomicpoet Marshall McLuhan is frequently cited by @Rushkoff to have said something along the lines of “every new medium starts out by using the old medium as its content”.

     TV started off with stage plays.
     Podcasts started with radio recordings.
     YouTube started with cable tv clips.
     TikTok started with YouTube/Reddit clips

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   • Embed this notice
     Erlend Sogge Heggen (erlend@writing.exchange)'s status on Monday, 26-Jun-2023 17:21:05 JST Erlend Sogge Heggen

     in reply to

     • Chester Wisniewski

     @chetwisniewski @atomicpoet

     The emerging Messaging Layer Security standard includes considerations for federated environments:

     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mls-federation-02

     “Different applications operated by different entities can use MLS to exchange end-to-end encrypted messages. For example, in a messaging application, clients of messaging1.tld can encrypt and decrypt end-to-end encrypted messages from messaging2.tld.”

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