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   Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 01:55:49 JST Miguel Arroz

   • goatsarah
   • golly josh darn

   @klardotsh @orc @goatsarah Having lived on both sides of the pond, there’s definitely a clash on how people look at the relationship between people and nature. Here it’s more “the deer is not crossing the road, the road is crossing the forest” and there are heavy fines and prision time if people mess or even disturb wild life. So different views on the whole orca issue are expected.

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     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 01:55:47 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • golly josh darn
     @arroz @orc @klardotsh Yes. I get the feeling that if we were talking about narrow boats, the reaction would be profoundly different.
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     Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 01:55:48 JST Miguel Arroz

     in reply to

     • goatsarah
     • golly josh darn

     @klardotsh @orc @goatsarah The association with wealth is more dubious, though. There are a lot of people here in Vancouver living in boats, or trying to, and they are not rich folks. I’m fact many do it because it’s cheaper than renting or owning property. Their biggest enemies are the marinas, which increasingly forbid living in boats that are parked there. But I’m sure they would be sympathetic with Iberian sailors and wanting a solution that protected both sides.

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     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 02:00:43 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • golly josh darn

     @orc @klardotsh @arroz I just looked, and second hand narrowboats, which are much more “working class coded” than sailboats, are about 5-10 times the cost of second hand sailboats at a similar level.

     But no, it’s the people living on sailboats who are apparently wealthy.

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     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 05:59:34 JST goatsarah

     in reply to

     • golly josh darn

     @arroz @orc @klardotsh This is a good point and something I hadn’t thought about. There are thousands of years of practice of Europeans managing the environment, which we treat ourselves as part of. I understand the Native American population very much did the same until the settlers stopped them (which, it has been suggested, has contributed to catastrophic wildfires being much worse than they otherwise would be - also the Little Ice Age is theorised to have been caused by massive US reforestation soaking up atmospheric CO2 within a couple of generations after the Native Americans were driven from their ancestral lands).

     The more recent settler population in North America seems to have very different ideas to both the people they displaced, and their European ancestors about how to manage the environment, with a sort of “all or nothing” approach (for example, nobody is allowed to live in many(most?) US national parks)

     Most of the responses to this thread that have resulted in me server blocking people have occurred in US waking hours, although the fediverse is more culturally European than much social media, and the vast majority of the reaction to this thread has been very positive.

     Something to think about.

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     goatsarah (goatsarah@thegoatery.dyndns.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 06:44:01 JST goatsarah

     in reply to
     @arroz @orc Although it should be noted that there is not one square metre of untouched wilderness in the UK. It’s all entirely curated, and most of it has been for thousands of years.
   • Embed this notice
     Miguel Arroz (arroz@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2023 06:44:02 JST Miguel Arroz

     in reply to

     • goatsarah
     • golly josh darn

     @goatsarah @orc @klardotsh I think Europe is very heterogenous in that regard. For example, UK has the same culture of urban parks and green spaces as here. People understand the daily contact with nature is essential. That doesn't happen in Portugal. As much as I think about coming back every day, how Portugal deals with nature is a downside for me. See the episode of asphalting the Fonte da Telha parking lot right on the beach (or having a parking lot on the beach in first place). 1/…