Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:25:56 JST Paul Cantrell

   The most foolish, useless hill I am willing to die on:

   “Login” is a noun, “log in” is a verb, buttons labels are verbs or verb phrases, and thus even button-like affordance that’s labeled “Login” is wrong

   • Embed this notice
     Shantini (shantini@techhub.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:27:30 JST Shantini

     in reply to

     @inthehands see also:
     - setup vs. set up
     - onboard vs. on board

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:27:36 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Shantini

     @shantini TELL IT

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:29:15 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jens Ayton

     @jens My favorite part of my OP is how it contained not one but two conspicuous, terrible typos that were both worse than the grammatical error the post was criticizing

   • Embed this notice
     Jens Ayton (jens@mendeddrum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:29:16 JST Jens Ayton

     in reply to

     @inthehands It’s a good hill, Bront

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:29:33 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Shantini

     @shantini or should I say “TELLIT”

   • Embed this notice
     Stu (tehstu@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 07:35:36 JST Stu

     in reply to

     @inthehands I've struggled with these and similar, but never thought to split them into noun and verb. Thanks!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 08:29:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • max

     @tinybird
     Ooooo, I hear that

   • Embed this notice
     max (tinybird@timetheft.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 08:29:01 JST max

     in reply to

     @inthehands presumably because of autocomplete, I keep seeing people typing things like "I don't have anymore eggs" and "that maybe true" and I feel like I'm going mad

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 08:55:03 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Merriam-Webster

     American Heritage backs me up on this one: “log on” = verb, “logon” = noun.

     @merriamwebster appears to claim that “log-in” and “log-on” are the noun forms, which is…preposterous, I think? Is this common usage and I’m missing something?! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/log%20on

     (M-W also claims that “log on” is a synonym for “log in,” and that the former is more common. I’m…skeptical of both. I associate “log on” with coming online / connecting, and “log in” with authentication.)

   • Embed this notice
     Blake Coverett (blakecoverett@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 09:56:56 JST Blake Coverett

     in reply to

     • Merriam-Webster

     @inthehands @merriamwebster Counter example for the login/logon part:

     https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winbase/nf-winbase-logonuserw

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 10:17:43 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Blake Coverett

     @blakecoverett
     Right, so on my foolish hill, that is wrong and should be LogOnUserW.

     I fully acknowledge that common usage has left my prescriptivist nonsense in the dust, and much like possessive “it’s“ with an apostrophe, this ship has already sailed.

   • Embed this notice
     Blake Coverett (blakecoverett@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 10:30:25 JST Blake Coverett

     in reply to

     @inthehands Ah - I wasn't even thinking about the Logon vs LogOn bit, but whether logIN or logON is for authentication versus connecting to the internet.

     That said, with an API as old as that one, it wasn't likely deeply considered. Win32 is not known for the consistency of it's API naming.

     (Though, I think they dropped EnumClaw when moving from Win16 to Win32.)

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:14:52 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     Early computer used large pieces of wood for authentication. As technology evolved, the wood was miniaturized until it became the character sequences “letm3in” and “trustno1,” in which the rings of wood are still visible to this day.

   • Embed this notice
     Ian Tindale (u0421793@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:14:53 JST Ian Tindale

     in reply to

     @inthehands why was it ever ‘log’ though?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:19:39 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     Authentication is handled in softwood in most systems, especially by startups, because it allows for faster growth.

   • Embed this notice
     Ian Tindale (u0421793@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:19:40 JST Ian Tindale

     in reply to

     @inthehands hardwood, or softwood?

   • Embed this notice
     Ian Tindale (u0421793@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:34:27 JST Ian Tindale

     in reply to

     @inthehands hardwood is too immutable I suppose?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:34:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     Exactly. Functional programming purists love it. Influence from this functional tradition have both the Oak and Maple programming languages their name, as well as the early email client Elm. (The creation of Pine was necessary to handle softwood passwords.)

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:38:57 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     I teach it in my programming language. It’s a great little language, and the students have fun with it! We use it to build a time machine.

   • Embed this notice
     Ian Tindale (u0421793@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:38:58 JST Ian Tindale

     in reply to

     @inthehands I used to dabble in Elm (the functional language) and for about 8 days I think I actually understood it a bit – it’s very enjoyable

     #Elm

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:39:26 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     Ha, evergreen question.

   • Embed this notice
     Ian Tindale (u0421793@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:39:27 JST Ian Tindale

     in reply to

     @inthehands how do you handle branching of softwood passwords? Do you have to be root?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:59:54 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Bodhipaksa

     @bodhipaksa
     But a sign is not a verb-phrase affordance.

     Imagine a buttons in a dialog box labeled “Saving,” “Discarding,” and “Cancellation.”

   • Embed this notice
     Bodhipaksa (bodhipaksa@mastodon.scot)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 22:59:55 JST Bodhipaksa

     in reply to

     @inthehands You're right of course about one being a noun and the other a verb. Login = the act of logging in (or the credentials you use to do so). I disagree about the labeling, though.

     A button saying "log in" is saying "I am the button that allows you to log in." One saying "login" is saying "I am the button that allows you to perform the act of logging in."

     "Checkout" and "check out" are a similar noun/verb pair, but there's no confusion about a supermarket sign saying "Checkout."

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 23:07:39 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Barry Schwartz 🫖

     @chemoelectric I think of them as being imperative verbs, which generally gives the same result as your rule.

   • Embed this notice
     Barry Schwartz 🫖 (chemoelectric@masto.ai)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2023 23:07:40 JST Barry Schwartz 🫖

     in reply to

     @inthehands Buttons should be labeled with infinitives (without "to" in Germanic languages).

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2023 00:02:07 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Barry Schwartz 🫖

     @chemoelectric TIL!

   • Embed this notice
     Barry Schwartz 🫖 (chemoelectric@masto.ai)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2023 00:02:08 JST Barry Schwartz 🫖

     in reply to

     @inthehands In particular, English speakers tend to translate to Esperanto imperatives when they should be translating to infinitives.

   • Embed this notice
     Barry Schwartz 🫖 (chemoelectric@masto.ai)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2023 00:02:09 JST Barry Schwartz 🫖

     in reply to

     @inthehands In English, yes, but not generally. It is a problem with people doing UI design in other languages.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2023 00:49:25 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ian Tindale

     @u0421793
     Still kicking myself for leaving the Elm language joke on the table, when you set me up for it so well!

     Here’s the time machine activity, if you’re curious:
     https://github.com/mac-comp381/elm-time-travel