Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
Re: morning.
The natural thing is when it is dark, it is “evening”, when it is daylight, it is “morning”.
I think a more appropriate word to use in both cases are:
* 06:00 to 18:00 = daylight or daytime
* 18:00 to 06:00 = nighttime
Which will free up “morning” and “evening” to mean before or after 00:00.
In any case, I think it only exists in English?
Because in the Tagalog and Filipino languages, “umaga” and “gabi” simply mean “daytime” and “nighttime” or “day” and “night”.
^_^
Graham Downs
Confusing the way people talk about times: in #Afrikaans, half-sewe (Half-seven) means half-past six, or "half an hour BEFORE seven".
When a #British person says "half-seven", they mean half PAST seven.
Lots of confusion there. It's almost as bad as midnight, which can either mean 23:59:59 or 00:00:00, and not even Wikipedia can tell you when it means what. And it makes a BIG difference, because when someone says something starts "tomorrow at midnight", do they mean Tuesday at 00:00:00, or Tuesday at 23:59:59? Arrgh, it's infurtiating.
Speaking of which, it really grates me when people talk about "last night at three AM". Because any time on or after 00:00:00 is clearly MORNING. It's "three o'clock this morning", NOT "last night at three o'clock." (yes, I would say, "this morning at midnight", too) :-P
Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
@GrahamDowns I think that's the thing with English, a lot of words are vague.
In the Tagalog and Filipino languages, as well as Filipino culture, we don't have this confusion that English has.
If one is referring to the clock, we just use “a.m.” or “p.m.”. Or, if one wants to use daylight, or the lack of it, we just say, “gabi pa“ or “madilim pa” (which would be, in this context, “it's still dark” --- “gabi pa” if translated without context is “it's still night”).
In Korea, if I am not mistaken, they use words “night” (not p.m.) once it is 19:00 onwards, even though it's still very bright. They use a 24-hour clock system but they don't really use it in regular conversation.
For someone like me from the Philippines, it's confusing at first, because “day“ and “night” is understood as the presence of sunlight, or lack of it. If we're referring to the clock we use, as mentioned, “a.m.” or “p.m.”.
Although, recently (or a few years ago?) you will also hear “four ng umaga” (four in the morning) instead of “4 a.m.”.
In the 80s, my grandparents start to use “gabi” (“night”) once the clock strikes 18:00, regardless if it is still bright or not.
I guess it depends on your generation and how you adapt to the changing culture and how we use words?
PS
The Philippines doesn't use the 24-hour clock system. Not even unofficially. I'm one of those few non-military citizen who prefers it, because it is easier and clear.
So, if I say, Tuesday at 00:00, it means the 12:00 midnight between Monday and Tuesday.
And if I say Tuesday at 24:00, it means the 12:00 midnight between Tuesday and Wednesday.
So far, at least as far 24:00 vs 00:00 are concerned, most Filipinos I talked to where this midnight mattered, they understood the difference between “Tuesday, 24:00” and “Tuesday, 00:00”.
Oh, I just remembered, in Korea, Thailand, and I think also in Vietnam and Laos, they use 25:00, 26:00, and 27:00. However, they only use it for TV and radio programming.
I'm not sure if you have something similar there. But I think it has to do with psychology.
If they say that the show will air at “Tuesday, 2:00 a.m.” or “Tuesday, 2:00 in the morning”, people tend to sleep and will be lazy to wake up.
However, if they say, “Monday at 26:00”, people are conditioned not to sleep because they are thinking “it is tonight, not tomorrow morning”.
And that “it is tonight, not tomorrow morning” is a contradiction to how they tell time conversationally.
Took me a while to understand why they were doing that. (I learned it back in the 90s, when cable TVs were a thing.)
Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
@GrahamDowns Yeah, it's weird.
It's my main reason why I often use the 24-hour system, even in conversation. It's easier and clear. I leave the interpretation of morning, evening, daytime, nighttime, tonight, today, to the receiver. LOL.
I mean, if we say 21:00 it is clearly understood. The only time I use “a.m.” is if I actually meant the time period between 00:00 and 05:00, since it is usually, at least here in the Philippines, understood as 13:00 to 17:00 “in the afternoon”. Only those of us working in night and graveyard shifts would understand it as 01:00 to 05:00 (a.m.)
Crazy. lol.
Graham Downs
@youronlyone I think you might be right, though: maybe it's only really an issue in English (or at least, in the West, because Afrikaans [the only other language I'm really familiar with, sorry] some also talk about "Drie-uur in the aand" [three o'clock at night], while others talk of "Drie uur in die oggend" [three o'clock in the morning]). :-)
Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
> two a.m. in the morning.
Oh yeah! Whenever I hear it, it distracts me. My mind was saying exactly what you said, “As to opposed to what? Two a.m. in the evening?!” Haha.
But, yeah, so many redundancies in English. And people are too sensitive today, you can't smile (forget about laughing). In the 80s and 90s, you'll all have a laughing moment, the other person would also laugh and like “Oh… right, that's a good point. Hahaha”
Re: military time. that is so true. Here in the Philippines the 24-hour system is viewed as military time. If I am not mistaken, it was because of American influence, and our first encounter with it is almost always with military people. ^^;;
But, I guess today, thanks to the Internet, more Filipinos view it as just a different way to saying time. The idea that it is “military time” is slowly fading.
So true, 25:00, 26:00, 27:00 are so weird. I always had fun teasing my ex-girlfriend about it (she was an officer).. She won't accept anything after 24:59 other than 01:00. She won't even accept 24:00, it's 00:00.
If you have a chance to see intermissions, or old TV schedule guides, from Thailand, Vietnam, and Korea, you'll see 25 and 26 often. 27:00 is rarely used, It's as good as the following day at 03:00. Was it in Japan, back in the late 90s, when I saw 27:00? I can't remember.
But yeah, only in TV and radio programmings. I haven't heard or read it outside of that context. Unless one really wants to psychologically tell someone not to sleep? ^_^;;
Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
@GrahamDowns Yep. Different times. Days were simpler decades ago.
LOL. I never taught I'll say those words together… I only hear it from my parents before. ^_^;;
That was a very interesting discussion. I so love it, thank you!
And we haven't touched decimal time, like the Swatch's Internet Time, and timezones. LOL.
Oh, re: DST, I also don't understand why it is needed. Here in Asia, we don't use it and we're still alive. Hehe.
The defense I usually hear is to adjust people's waking and sleeping time. However, if we look at countries in the far Northern and Southern hemispheres, they have longer day and night times. Like in Korea, yet they never needed to implement DST.
Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
@GrahamDowns Exactly! Timezones are confusing, and if you're setting a schedule with a country with DST, only makes it more complicated.
If we look at it from people living near the pole, they seem to be fine every year with having permanent daylight for 6 months, and nighttime for 6 months.
They simply adjusted the meanings to words related to time, and life goes on.
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