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   Narbray (narbray@varishangout.net)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 22:00:07 JST Narbray
   the worst thing is that many of these people really don't want to use window but are afraid to use linux.
   
   i use linux mint and the truth is that it is very easy to use and very user friendly it is great for getting started with linux and it is completely free and has given me no real reason to go back to window.
   
   maybe the only drawback is the games but it is not impossible to play games on linux nowadays and you just have to do a few extra things.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 22:00:06 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @Narbray A worser thing is that people install GNU and then think they're running "just Linux".
     
     systemd/Linux mint isn't completely free, as it contains proprietary software.
     
     GNU/Linux runs free software games just fine, so I don't see any drawback there.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 22:36:13 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
     @sallyNULL I was referring to the proprietary software in Linux.
     
     
     I haven't checked systemd properly, but systemd alone seems to be free software, licensed under the LGPLv2+, except somehow it's bad.
     
     If I remember correctly, systemd has, or used to have a firmware loader, which I guess was dedicated to loading up proprietary firmware?
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sallynull@gleasonator.com)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 22:36:14 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     
     What nonfree software does soystemd include?
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-May-2023 21:28:15 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • DarkMahesvara
     @Narbray I don't have much to propose, as I'm not making the recommendation - you are.
     
     I guess you should probably just note that the distro contains "convenient" malware, including malware drivers that y hardware won't operate without, similar to this: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/install-fest-devil.html
     
     
     On decent hardware, a completely free distro functions much better than all the proprietary GNU/Linux distro's, so I don't get where the "complicate their lives" part comes from.
     
     I would argue that being entrapped by proprietary malware complicates your life more than being free of such.
     
     >using gnu/linux even with proprietary software is still a thousand times better than running the microsoft monopoly
     It's slightly better, but not 1000x, as being close to freedom, but never achieving it doesn't give you freedom.
     
     micro...soft is only one company - there are plenty of malware authors that are bad or worse that are happy to port their malware to GNU/Linux - thus your freedom is just as fraught unless you reject any and all malware, no matter how enticing or tempting.
     
     @DarkMahesvara >dont wanna understand that the average user will never go from 0 to 100 FOSS.
     First of all, GNU/Jihad against "FOSS" and all other infidel terms used to supplant freedom with proprietary software!!!
     
     >1. its a gradual process. first you make people aware you can run better free software on a proprietary OS.
     Due to many proprietary sabotages, free software doesn't always run better, all the time.
     
     Thus focusing on purely practical terms is fraught with failure: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/when-free-software-isnt-practically-superior.en.html
     
     Firstly, you should primarily focus on making people aware that an OS known as GNU exists and has countless freedom respecting program available for it and you can note that x, y, z software is practically superior and happens to have a port for x proprietary OS as a secondary point.
     
     >2. then you make the free software OS run just as good as the proprietary one and would you look at that all the free software they already used works best on free software OS.
     This step has already been done, as GNU is already the best OS and runs far better than any proprietary OS.
     
     >3. then maybe someday if we lucky and have enough people that care we might get the proprietary software become free software.
     I don't get how proprietary software is meant to become free unless you were to somehow convince the proprietary software developers to make it free voluntarily - which happens incredibly rarely.
     
     If we really want to achieve total proprietary death, the best way to do it is make everything required for free software extremists to replace or eliminate every single proprietary program available - which has been done and then do that, rather than continuing to run proprietary software because it's convenient.
   • Embed this notice
     Narbray (narbray@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 30-May-2023 21:28:16 JST Narbray

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki so what do you propose to do?
     I cannot recommend people to complicate their lives with a completely free distro.
     
     using gnu/linux even with proprietary software is still a thousand times better than running the microsoft monopoly
   • Embed this notice
     DarkMahesvara (darkmahesvara@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 30-May-2023 21:28:16 JST DarkMahesvara

     in reply to
     @Narbray no point in arguing with FSE people about that stuff. they dont wanna understand that the average user will never go from 0 to 100 FOSS.
     
     1. its a gradual process. first you make people aware you can run better FOSS software on a proprietary OS.
     2. then you make the FOSS OS run just as good as the proprietary one and would you look at that all the FOSS software they already used works best on FOSS OS.
     3. then maybe someday if we lucky and have enough people that care we might get the proprietary software become FOSS.
     
     the last step very likely is a pipe dream but like you said even getting people to step 2 is a desirable improvement where change is possible.