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   simsa04 (simsa04@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 23-May-2023 11:08:08 JST simsa04

   • scribe
   • band
   @band
   This discussion may be of interest to you https://gnusocial.net/conversation/8219407#notice-14620164 also the other one that @scribe had: https://gnusocial.net/conversation/8230687#notice-14643578
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     simsa04 (simsa04@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 23-May-2023 21:42:22 JST simsa04

     in reply to

     • band
     What a niece play of words. But I think that the #counterculture indeed countered culture, just not in the sense (or extent) you seem to deem necessary. The invention in music, social gatherings, the introduction of colours in fashion – remember all the grey-suited organisation-men of the 1950s? – the turn to "alternative healing practices" etc. have all been a renunciation of highbrow culture. On the other hand, the revitalisation of land and Nature came along with an intensive interaction, study – and expoloitation, I'd say – of indigenous cultures, in the Americas predominantely with the Hopi nation and the struggles for Indigenous rights, then with the study of Shamanism and "native religions" in Eastern Europe (in the 1990s) and earlier in Asia. That historically an understanding of Nature as vivid and vitalised did not (and does not) prevent various Indigenous communities from exploiting and destroying habitats – the Maori in New Zealand are a famous example – is something that often escaped the attention of such idealisations.
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     band@octodon.social's status on Tuesday, 23-May-2023 21:42:26 JST band

     in reply to

     @simsa04 generative and interesting discussion. my free associative question right now is: Why did the counterculture not counter culture? Amitav Ghosh (and others) propose that a kind of vitalism is needed to counter the notion that Nature (whatever that is) is inert and lifeless. I found this 1992 article: Gnosticism, Ancient and Modern: The Religion of the Future? by Christopher Lasch informing my current thinking: https://www.sfu.ca/~poitras/pc_gnosticism_92.pdf

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     simsa04 (simsa04@gnusocial.net)'s status on Wednesday, 24-May-2023 00:48:22 JST simsa04

     in reply to

     • band
     I don't follow to what you pin the either/or. A short elaboration?
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     band@octodon.social's status on Wednesday, 24-May-2023 00:48:23 JST band

     in reply to

     @simsa04 good points; all of them. My free association first thought is: does it have to be Either/Or? (sorry/not sorry for that cheap shot)

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     band@octodon.social's status on Wednesday, 24-May-2023 01:13:17 JST band

     in reply to

     @simsa04 yeah; just not thinking before replying. the Either/Or reference is about a general dualism I perceive in commentary on the current situations (social, political, economic, ....). I think you appreciate the messiness of trying to make sense of things. My current zeitgeist mood: anxiety, ambiguity, precarity.