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1. Embed this notice
   Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:44 JST Cory Doctorow

   Murphy starts by noting that the Office for National Statistics's official after-tax income figure for average households is wildly inflated. The ONS puts the number at £31,383, but the true figure is £23,500, which has to cover £2k in National Insurance and £800 in "near-compulsory" pensions.

   20/

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     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:36 JST sj_zero

     in reply to
     Sorta seems like cherry picking data. "Oh, look how bad england energy is!" Meanwhile German energy bills are up 20x...
     
     Blaming capitalism for consequences of the largest worldwide government intervention in everything possibly ever seems disingenuous. If that is capitalist, I guess nothing isn't. We could nationalize every industry and when there are shortages, despite having no private ownership of capital we'll all just scream "damn you, capitalism!!!"
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:36 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     > "Oh, look how bad england energy is!" Meanwhile German energy bills are up 20x...
     you misrepresent the situation in the uk vs eu with such a statement, friend
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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:37 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     Abandoned by the Democratic Party, student debtors are organising themselves independently, with Strike Debt leading the way with their own payment strikes.

     For more, check out Naked Capitalism's roundup of payment strikes by Nick Corbishley, who also notes surging support for Mexican water-bill strikes, amid skyrocketing water prices, accompanied by water privatisation and sweetheart deals for foreign companies like Coca-Cola:

     https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/08/are-payment-strikes-about-to-become-a-regular-feature-of-the-economic-landscape.html

     eof/

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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:38 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     Meanwhile, in the USA, Biden steadfastly refuses to make good on his promise of unconditional student debt cancellation. Instead, he's dribbling out means-tested, complex, partial cancellations that no one loves - especially not the young voters who'll have to show up and vote in the midterms if the Dems are going to keep the House.

     25/

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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:39 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     So payment strikes are hitting China, home to a regional mass-scale mortgage payment strikes, hitting 320 property development projects. 28% of China's top property developers have renegotiated their debts or defaulted altogether:

     https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/87664

     24/

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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:40 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     From the capital classes' perspective, debt is a *great* way to fund expansion, since it means that the economy can grow even as wages stagnate, and consumer loans can be packaged as financial products that deliver a steady return, allowing people who have money to multiply it without producing anything.

     23/

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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:42 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     No surprise that most UK families have no savings and carry heavy debt burdens. Tory voters were promised a better life for their kids. Instead, they've got nothing. Less than nothing, really, when you factor in debt.

     Payment strikes are increasingly common around the world, proving Michael Hudson's maxim that "debt's that can't be paid, won't be paid." There are a *lot* of unpayable debts, thanks to the role of consumer debt in funding the past two decades of economic expansion.

     22/

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     Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:42:43 JST Cory Doctorow

     in reply to

     Rents in the UK average £1,100/mo (£13k/year), while Council Tax averages £2k, water is £400, and a family mobile service comes in at £1k/year. Add £300 for broadband and £2k for energy (a figure that is shooting up as you read these words).

     Then there's a car (£3k/year), food (minimum £100/week for a family, or £5k/year), and you're at £26k/year. That leaves £5k/year for clothes, Christmas gifts, and a holiday.

     21/

   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:59:48 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     Do you mean to propose that the price in England is not substantially more than it is in germany? How then do you explain that not only is london more expensive than any city in europe but also that power is fifty percent more expensive in london than it is in berlin? and double the price of power in paris? These are not as you purport places with with actual affordable power like warsaw, oslo, budapest.
     
     There is a problem with power in the UK right now and it is not a trick of statistics as you seem to represent it here. People are in trouble, and need help.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 18:59:51 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     It's great that you can get electricity cheap in what -- Norway? Sweden? But if you're not in Norway or Sweden and instead you're in Germany or Italy the fact that they drag the average down is cold comfort.
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:07:03 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
     • sj_zero
     I don't mean to marginalize the problems in the USA, there are many problems and they are serious. But the UK is somehow, impossibly, even worse, by enough to give your eyes wide with awe.
   • Embed this notice
     Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:07:04 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero JFC and I thought we had problems here in the US
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:19:49 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     the cost of living in the UK is prohibitive and the salaries are low by first world standards. It is probably not helpful to say it's because of "capitalism" but at least it accurately targets the problem (predatory rent-seeking behavior left unchecked, foreign investor policy), govt intervention as you write.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:19:51 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     The key here is that if there's an honest truth to be told, represent it with the truth, not with cherry picked or out of context data.
     
     It breaks good arguments.
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:20:20 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     >vs govt intervention as you write.
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:26:31 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • Bill_Boone
     fuck off retard fed
   • Embed this notice
     Bill_Boone (bill_boone@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:26:32 JST Bill_Boone

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @sj_zero @pluralistic Yeah, seems like complicated rationalizing for a situation when you could just say "it's the jews" ?
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     Kallian (kallian@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:28:20 JST Kallian

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero That estimated tax number for 50k in London is off by a huge amount. I paid just shy of double that in 2020 and I was on just over 50k USD then.
     touch fluffy tail likes this.
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:29:34 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     these are usually crowdsourced, so that is unfortunate
     
     is it also off when it comes to costs of for example coffee beer and dinner
   • Embed this notice
     Kallian (kallian@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:32:57 JST Kallian

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero a pint in London is more likely to cost 4.5 GBP than USD. Dinner seems reasonable if you're getting something cheap. Coffee is closer to 4 GBP.
     touch fluffy tail likes this.
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:34:37 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     broadly speaking, uk has the highest prices and the lowest wages in its class.
     
     i don't know how they messed it up so bad but the people there are in a lot of trouble, especially now that they can't leave
   • Embed this notice
     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:34:38 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero
     how bad does it look if you compare UK to france or Germany.
     
     is it better or worse to compare the EU as a whole to the UK :zt_think2:
     touch fluffy tail likes this.
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:36:47 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     cc @Halo
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     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:37:32 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero :zt_naruhodo:
     are there any direct comparisons to German and UK prices tho.
     I do be feeling like taking the average of the entire EU makes it look lower than the prices actually are.
     
     also seems more fair to compare the UK to it's EU equivalents (France/Germany) :zt_think2:
     
     then again maybe the average makes the EU look worse than it actually is... in which case the UK really is bad.
     
     i don't know :illya_panic:
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:37:32 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     i have CC you a direct comparison by city
     
     see also https://www.energypriceindex.com/price-data
   • Embed this notice
     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:39:56 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero :zt_naruhodo:
     thank thank.
     interesting. thought the UK was a bit more solid industry/power wise.
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:39:56 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     as did i. they don't actually import gas from russia.
     
     i don't know the details but this is only one of a great many issues there is going on there, and i don't know if the good people who live there will catch a break anytime soon
   • Embed this notice
     Kallian (kallian@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:42:37 JST Kallian

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     @Halo @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero our power industry is fucked. We've spent decades building windmills and replacing crop fields with solar panels instead of going nuclear or using the giant fucking underground gas reserves we have.
   • Embed this notice
     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:42:37 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     @Kallian @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero :reimu_sigh: politicians
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:42:37 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     the push for "green power" is the western version of china's "great leap forward"
   • Embed this notice
     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:44:48 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     yeah feel free to look for it, keyword HEPI. capital cities are a fair enough heuristic imho.
     
     are you worried about estonia being next on the chopping block if ukraine falls?
   • Embed this notice
     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:44:49 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero
     I'd still prefer a graph that compares all the EU countries (or at least the important ones) individually, than taking an EU average.
     but whatevs.
     
     Wonder if the Germans still have the "fight till Berlin" attitude or if they'll give in halfway through winter :zt_laugh2:
     
     
     (seriously just put on some more clothes :akko_sus:)
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:47:39 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • :sob2: :cunny::lick_left: Yakotarun :cunny::senko_lewd: :sob2:
     • Halo | Stanning Reinsalu
     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     is it really so expensive in tallinn
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     :sob2: :cunny::lick_left: Yakotarun :cunny::senko_lewd: :sob2: (yakotarun@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:47:40 JST :sob2: :cunny::lick_left: Yakotarun :cunny::senko_lewd: :sob2:

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     @Kallian @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero damn... hungary is that much cheaper? :senko_shock2: although i would like to see the average monthly income too for comparing :sussy_fumo:
     
     also the uk has more importent priority in their mind... like policing hate speech and spread fag propaganda :kekw:
   • Embed this notice
     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:47:40 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • :sob2: :cunny::lick_left: Yakotarun :cunny::senko_lewd: :sob2:
     • sj_zero
     • Kallian
     @Yakotarun @Kallian @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero didn't they add new chinese face tracking camera shit :akko_sus:
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     Halo | Stanning Reinsalu (halo@varishangout.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 19:47:49 JST Halo | Stanning Reinsalu

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero
     
     worried? can't really say. half and half I guess.
     
     It's more about wanting Europe to stop being cucks.
     If the EU stays together through winter I'll start feeling more confident we'll be less dependent on the US and China as governments MIGHT take the fucking hint and invest in domestic industries.
     touch fluffy tail likes this.
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 20:28:16 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • Bill_Boone
     i already called you a retard why are you still talking
     
     go away
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     Bill_Boone (bill_boone@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 20:28:17 JST Bill_Boone

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • sj_zero
     @fluffy @pluralistic @sj_zero c'mon, it's obviously the fault of the jews, when they run the US and the Ukraine it turns out that the fuel shortage caused by them is the fault of the jews.
     
     If you need that broken down any further maybe you're the retard.
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     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 21:38:23 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     It's no accident that some of the most expensive places to live in the world are commonwealth nations: England's London, Canada's Vancouver and Toronto, and Australia's Melbourne.
     
     All three countries have faced a collapsing industrial base, and in the face of that, real estate was a quick and politically easy way for governments to keep people feeling rich despite not being rich.
     
     In Canada in particular, I'm well acquainted with the tens of thousands of dollars in free money available to buy a house, and that's on top of artificially low interest rates propped up by the central bank (and one of the central bankers who led the charge into housing, Mark Carney, ended up as the head of the Bank of England, unsurprisingly). Political parties fell over themselves to come up with new ways to prop up the housing market. If I wanted to, I could go to the bank tomorrow, and borrow a million dollars to buy a house in Toronto (assuming I could buy a house for that little). That's absurd, I simply shouldn't be allowed to do that, but I am. People want to blame foreign investment, and that's certainly a small part of it, but access to unlimited credit has been the primary driver of real estate, and most purchasers of real estate are people living in those cities. In Vancouver, there's an absurdly high tax on buying places to live and not living in them, and I think in Toronto there's even a foreign investment ban, but there's still people buying houses for a million bucks.
     
     The absurdly high house prices are basically the genesis many of the other parts of the high cost of living. People living in those areas need a lot more money to live because just renting an apartment is absurdly expensive.
     
     This isn't because the conservatives spent a lot of time in power in Canada, at least. The liberals are known as "Canada's natural ruling party", and there are no term limits, so they were totally in control of the government from the late 90s through to the late 2000s, then eventually got power in 2015 and have formed the government ever since (meanwhile housing costs have done nothing but rise). For most of that time, the liberals were in charge of Ontario, and the liberals or NDP were in charge of BC.
     
     As I recall, Melborne has incredibly beneficial tax incenentives for purchasing property which people take advantage of to purchase multiple properties.
     
     As for the UK, I believe the biggest thing in London is it's a great place to launder your money, and real estate is one of the ways to do it. It's been a while, but I think that was the big thing.
     
     A Canadian (Doctorow) claiming that high cost of living is because of the eeeeevil conservatives just doesn't track. I mean, they contributed, but it was a team effort.
     
     Now, energy is another thing, and it's a lot simpler. It comes down to a few little things:
     
     1. "green" policy that just means we "stop using fossil fuels" by transferring those activities to dictatorships that don't care about being green and only allow those dictatorships to drill for oil;
     
     2. the covid lockdowns and the government response;
     
     3. central bank money printing; and of course
     
     4. shtickinittaputinbrah
     
     So it's a complicated thing, but a lot of it starts with monetary and fiscal policy and banking regulations and taxation.
     
     House prices are starting to drop now, and it appears to be happening exactly because interest rates are finally starting to rise in response to inflation. That should give a great clue as to where the solution will be.
     touch fluffy tail likes this.
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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Sep-2022 21:43:30 JST touch fluffy tail

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     >People want to blame foreign investment, and that's certainly a small part of it
     How do you figure that the contribution is small? although i am far from some expert on canadian real estate, a brief google search showed this number to be at twenty percent of homes in toronto. If you have some justification for your statement, I would hear it.