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1. Embed this notice
   Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:35 JST Aral Balkan

   in reply to

   • Jeff Moe
   • Viktor Nagornyy

   @viktor @jebba OK, Viktor, clearly this is the hill you’ve chosen. We disagree profoundly and there isn’t time in the world to argue with everyone who defends a broken status quo. #FOSS licenses may lack ethical safeguards but that doesn’t mean that the organisations we build and the tools we design must do so too. We can layer ethical principles on top (e.g., https://small-tech.org/about/#small-technology) instead of proudly embracing its rampant exploitation by corporations/governments as a feature.

   • clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Viktor Nagornyy (viktor@me.dm)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:36 JST Viktor Nagornyy

     in reply to

     • Jeff Moe

     @aral @jebba #FOSS is for everyone, including enterprises & govs. That's the nature of open & free. Like it or not. What Element does is their business & I can't comment on their biz strategy. What's important here is to not conflate Element & Matrix. Matrix is a protocol managed by Matrix Foundation. If you don't like Element providing some funding to the foundation, you probably should stop using every FOSS out there as most received funding from questionable orgs, govs & individuals 🤷

   • Embed this notice
     Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:37 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Jeff Moe
     • Viktor Nagornyy

     @viktor @jebba As a tiny org that makes #FOSS and doesn’t and wouldn’t peddle our wares at police conferences or work with them (as we’ve made sacrifices to enable us to keep working on building things for *people* not *enterprises/governments*), I reject that statement. We’re living proof that it’s not true. And I like to think we’re not the only ones. FOSS !== enterprise software !== a total lack of ethical standards in who you are funded by (and thank fuck for that).

     #acab

   • Embed this notice
     Viktor Nagornyy (viktor@me.dm)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:38 JST Viktor Nagornyy

     in reply to

     • Jeff Moe

     @jebba You're conflating Element and Matrix. Matrix is managed by Matrix Foundation, which has "guardians" that are not part of Element. If Matrix is institutionally compromised then every single #FOSS is compromised, too, because they do what other FOSS do. No more, no less.

     https://matrix.org/foundation/

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Moe (jebba@jebba.moe)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:39 JST Jeff Moe

     in reply to

     • Viktor Nagornyy

     @viktor

     Yes, I understand all that.

     I also understand who funds and partners with a company affects their priorities.

     I can look at their code, but they are institutionally compromised which will affect their decisions.

     Also, earlier someone mentioned the investor--he was founder of dodgy apps too, not just money.

     Want to know a group, see who they work with.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Moe (jebba@jebba.moe)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:40 JST Jeff Moe

     in reply to

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation
     • ✌🏿✍🏿
     • Element

     @aral @jalcine @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon

     Matrix was funded by Protocol Labs (IPFS, Filecoin crypto) and by the guy that started Skype and Kazaa.

     It is well known from Snowden docs (and earlier!) that Skype had a government backdoor.

     Kazaa was also loaded with spyware.

     Matrix is institutionally compromised.

   • Embed this notice
     Viktor Nagornyy (viktor@me.dm)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:40 JST Viktor Nagornyy

     in reply to

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation
     • ✌🏿✍🏿
     • Jeff Moe
     • Element

     @jebba @aral @jalcine @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Matrix was created & initially funded at Amdocs. When funding got cut, creators started a company which became Element. You may disagree w/ what Element does as a company, but Matrix (protocol) is #FOSS. U can review homesevers' code, u can review spec, u can even review Element apps' code, & u can use other 3rd party clients w/o touching Element. Ur friends & enemies use FOSS. That's what it means to be free & open. Anyone can use it.

   • Embed this notice
     Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:41 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation
     • ✌🏿✍🏿
     • Element

     @jalcine Wait, they’re against corporations? This VC-funded corporation is against corporations? And there I thought they were just another enterprise software company.

     https://matrix.org/blog/2021/07/27/element-raises-30-m-to-boost-matrix

     @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon

   • Embed this notice
     ✌🏿✍🏿 (jalcine@todon.eu)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:43 JST ✌🏿✍🏿

     in reply to

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation
     • Element

     @element

     Like this makes you no better than the corporations that promote abusive forms of communication y'all are allegedly against (or I guess not?)

     @amatecha @matrix @liaizon

   • Embed this notice
     ✌🏿✍🏿 (jalcine@todon.eu)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:44 JST ✌🏿✍🏿

     in reply to

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation
     • Element

     @element

     That's a horrible hill to die on, and I can't ever again in good faith recommend or support y'all. Thanks for spitting in the face of millions.

     @amatecha @matrix @liaizon

   • Embed this notice
     Element (element@mastodon.matrix.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-May-2023 16:55:45 JST Element

     • wakest ⁂
     • The Matrix.org Foundation

     @amatecha @matrix @liaizon https://element.io/blog/the-online-safety-bill-an-attack-on-encryption gives an idea of our position. And no, there are no backdoors. Yes, we fund Matrix dev by selling encrypted messaging to governments, which includes police: if you don’t like that then please feel free to use a different app.