Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 21:27:40 JST feld
   "COVID is not over"
   
   ok but the Spanish Flu (H1N1) is not over yet either.
   
   Do people really think it's appropriate to wear masks for the rest of their lives?
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 21:49:44 JST feld

     in reply to
     COVID peaked at over 23,000 deaths per week in the USA. It's ~1000 now.
     
     Is that still a lot? Sure.
     
     But who is actually dying? Here's Michigan's data for 2023*
     
     Looks like it's people over 50. Have you looked at people over 50 in the USA lately? Not exactly role models for a healthy lifestyle.
     
     
     
     * sorry, trouble finding 2023 only data for all of USA
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 21:51:26 JST feld

     in reply to
     Let's look at Chicago (Cook County)
     
     Those death rates have absolutely plummeted
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:03:15 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post
     I'm so exhausted with these retarded studies people keep bandying about.
     
     Are masks a magical forcefield that will contain the virus from being spread throughout the population? No
     
     How does the virus spread? Mostly by riding on tiny water droplets coming out of your mouth and nose, which the mask catches by absorption
     
     Perfect is the enemy of good.
   • Embed this notice
     Post (post@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:03:16 JST Post

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     @feld @freemo

     Masks with close to zero efficacy according to a systematic review of 78 studies by Cochrane:

     https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:04:07 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Vad fan?
     the cloth masks *did* actually help during the Spanish Flu, we have records supporting it, and that's one of the reasons we started wearing masks in the operating theater
   • Embed this notice
     Vad fan? (grumpy@annihilation.social)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:04:12 JST Vad fan?

     in reply to

     @feld There are tons of airborn diseases that are not over yet, but nobody wore masks before COVID. Well, actually people tried using them during Spanish flu, but to no avail which was absolutely logical.

     This masks BS was just an attempt to establish some sort of dresscode for the so called “new normality”.

   • Embed this notice
     Vad fan? (grumpy@annihilation.social)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:12:42 JST Vad fan?

     in reply to

     @feld

     and that’s one of the reasons we started wearing masks in the operating theater

     No, the reasons are absolutely different. You should read more, man.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:12:42 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Vad fan?
     > In 1905, ALICE HAMILTON (1869–1970), a Chicago physician, proposed that scarlet fever was transmitted through droplet infection and recommended doctors wear masks at the time of surgery because of heavy droplet transmission from the mouth and nose while talking and teaching. This may have been the first recommendation that surgeons wear masks.
     
     original suggestion predated Spanish Flu by only a decade
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:15:04 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post
     "Read the review"
     
     OKAY
     
     👇 👇 👇
     
     Authors' conclusions
     
     The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions
   • Embed this notice
     Post (post@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:15:05 JST Post

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     @feld @freemo

     How does the virus spread? Mostly by riding on tiny water droplets coming out of your mouth and nose, which the mask catches by absorption

     This is a model that may makes sense but in the end it leads to the wrong conclusions, as proved by the systematic review by Cochrane.

     Perfect is the enemy of good.

     Read the review: the effectiveness of masks is close to zero, not 90%, nor 50% and nor 10% as you seem to imply.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:16:25 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post
     The authors of this Cochrane study literally tell us to not give a shit about the study.
     
     Because like most studies, they're only published because you don't get paid unless you publish. The results of the study do not matter.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:19:29 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     if you want to talk about gun violence in blue cities full of black people, I have some data for you...
     
     https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     skylar :confederateflag:??? :z: (skylar@misskey.yandere.love)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:19:30 JST skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:

     in reply to
     @feld is this deaths from the chinese virus or shootings?
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:21:24 JST feld

     in reply to

     • chiasm
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post
     alright, now that the point has been made let's stop shitting on the dude and find a way to encourage him to be more careful about interpreting these studies incorrectly which just drags you down into a conspiracy theory hole
   • Embed this notice
     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:21:25 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • chiasm
     • Post

     @chiasm @post @feld

     Yup, the study literally said we dont have good studies ont he effectiveness of facemasks and we need them...

     Somehow this dude read "Face masks have 0% effective rate and this review is more credible than all the others!"...

   • Embed this notice
     chiasm (chiasm@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:21:26 JST chiasm

     in reply to

     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post

     @freemo @post @feld yes that's a very non-conclusive systematic review. The authors conclude that the variability in the studies and the low adherence with the masking interventions means they can't say with any confidence whether the effect size estimate is at all accurate. That's a great paper to cite to show we don't actually know if masks work!

   • Embed this notice
     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:21:27 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Post

     @post

     “as proved by Cochrane.”

     The review you posted clearly did not state that masks were ineffective. It said we dont have strong confidence (proof) they are effective and that more studies need to be done to answer that question…

     You really do just read what you want to read dont ya?

     @feld

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:26:47 JST feld

     in reply to

     • chiasm
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
     • Post
     Thanks for making sure you bolded the word "probably" many times.
     
     "Probably" is my favorite type of science.
   • Embed this notice
     Post (post@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:26:48 JST Post

     in reply to

     • chiasm
     • 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     @freemo @chiasm @feld

     You are clearly not used to this kind of papers, it is normal to use cautious sentences to this extent and you should focus on the results instead:

     “We included 12 trials (10 cluster‐RCTs) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness (two trials with healthcare workers and 10 in the community). Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness (ILI)/COVID‐19 like illness compared to not wearing masks (risk ratio (RR) 0.95, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.84 to 1.09; 9 trials, 276,917 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence. Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza/SARS‐CoV‐2 compared to not wearing masks (RR 1.01, 95% CI 0.72 to 1.42; 6 trials, 13,919 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence). Harms were rarely measured and poorly reported (very low‐certainty evidence).

     We pooled trials comparing N95/P2 respirators with medical/surgical masks (four in healthcare settings and one in a household setting). We are very uncertain on the effects of N95/P2 respirators compared with medical/surgical masks on the outcome of clinical respiratory illness (RR 0.70, 95% CI 0.45 to 1.10; 3 trials, 7779 participants; very low‐certainty evidence). N95/P2 respirators compared with medical/surgical masks may be effective for ILI (RR 0.82, 95% CI 0.66 to 1.03; 5 trials, 8407 participants; low‐certainty evidence). Evidence is limited by imprecision and heterogeneity for these subjective outcomes. The use of a N95/P2 respirators compared to medical/surgical masks probably makes little or no difference for the objective and more precise outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza infection (RR 1.10, 95% CI 0.90 to 1.34; 5 trials, 8407 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence). Restricting pooling to healthcare workers made no difference to the overall findings. Harms were poorly measured and reported, but discomfort wearing medical/surgical masks or N95/P2 respirators was mentioned in several studies (very low‐certainty evidence).

     One previously reported ongoing RCT has now been published and observed that medical/surgical masks were non‐inferior to N95 respirators in a large study of 1009 healthcare workers in four countries providing direct care to COVID‐19 patients.”

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:27:47 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     forgot about all those black people in Alaska
   • Embed this notice
     skylar :confederateflag:??? :z: (skylar@misskey.yandere.love)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:27:48 JST skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:

     in reply to
     @feld wow what a coincidence
   • Embed this notice
     ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ?? (animetradcath@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:33:45 JST ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     @feld @skylar America doesn't have a gun problem.
     America has a black problem.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:33:45 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     • ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??
     Poverty rate for whites in USA is ~9% and it's ~20% for blacks.
     
     You don't think a higher concentration of impoverished people is going to cause some shooty-shooty violence especially when these people get clustered together in a city?
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:35:06 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     so the common denominator here is poverty, not race
   • Embed this notice
     skylar :confederateflag:??? :z: (skylar@misskey.yandere.love)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:35:07 JST skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:

     in reply to
     @feld oh come on it says RIGHT THERE that it's chock full of indians
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:39:17 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     • ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??
     Well now's the opportunity to begin researching it
     
     https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-306-48039-3_4
   • Embed this notice
     ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ?? (animetradcath@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:39:18 JST ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     @feld @skylar I had no idea that poverty completely override completely normal snd sensible people and turns them into violent savages?
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:48:45 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     • DM me your tummy (girls (female)only)
     • ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??
     Because you're comparing by the whole not by per capita? Why would you even begin comparing that way without populations being 100% equal?
     
     And then you have to consider completely different living conditions of where poor white people live vs poor black people
     
     There are so many factors here that lead to different living experiences and different outcomes you can't point to a single root cause.
     
     "Why then don't poor black people choose to live like poor white people"
     
     Well I don't know, maybe because they used to live like poor whites during Reconstruction but then in the early 1900s we blamed the economic hardships on the black people who spread throughout the country and decided to burn down their homes and lynch them if they didn't get out of their counties so they all ran to inner-city communities which created the typical American ghettos? Just like we did 20 years earlier to the Chinese which created Chinatowns?
   • Embed this notice
     DM me your tummy (girls (female)only) (boomerman@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:48:46 JST DM me your tummy (girls (female)only)

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     • ????AnimeTradCath:flag_swr: ??
     @feld @AnimeTradCath @skylar So why do poor whites shoot people less than blacks as a whole?
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:51:04 JST feld

     in reply to

     • skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:
     I think you might find their living conditions don't really match your definition of civilization
   • Embed this notice
     skylar :confederateflag:??? :z: (skylar@misskey.yandere.love)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 22:51:05 JST skylar :confederateflag:??? :z:

     in reply to
     @feld
     >another race of savages can't behave themselves in civilization
     >NUH-UH IT'S POVERTY
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 23:12:02 JST feld

     in reply to

     • demitasse
     It can't ever really be "over", but the threat level is so low for the average person now
   • Embed this notice
     demitasse (demitasse@pleroma.narrativerry.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2023 23:12:03 JST demitasse

     in reply to
     @feld the only people who say/think covid is not over are the bottom of the barrel, the dumbest people on the entire planet.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:19:17 JST feld

     in reply to

     • meso
     it's actually not, the strain just changed over time to be less and less harmful. The same influenza that goes around every year is directly linked to its ancestor, the Spanish Flu
     
     > "All human-adapted influenza A viruses of today — both seasonal variations and those that caused more dramatic pandemics — are descendents, direct or indirect, of that founding virus," notes Dr. Taubenberger, Senior Investigator in NIAID’s Laboratory of Infectious Diseases. "Thus we can be said to be living in a pandemic era that began in 1918."
   • Embed this notice
     meso (meso@asbestos.cafe)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:19:18 JST meso

     in reply to
     @feld Spanish flu is literally over, the strain is gone. What are you talking about
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:26:55 JST feld

     in reply to

     • meso
     By your logic COVID doesn't even exist anymore because it's not the same strain as the original one we isolated
   • Embed this notice
     meso (meso@asbestos.cafe)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:26:56 JST meso

     in reply to
     @feld >the strain just changed over time to be less and less harmful
     J8wl_C66CZWQUQ.png
   • Embed this notice
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:27:31 JST Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:

     in reply to
     @feld Existence was a mistake.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:49:40 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Erik Haugen
     • Vad fan?
     If masks were as ineffective as some people claim it would be illogical to keep wearing them in the surgical theater too
   • Embed this notice
     Erik Haugen (ech@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 00:49:41 JST Erik Haugen

     in reply to

     • Vad fan?

     @feld @grumpy I don't think anyone is suggesting that surgeons stop wearing masks.

   • Embed this notice
     Vad fan? (grumpy@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 05:02:08 JST Vad fan?

     in reply to

     • Erik Haugen

     @feld @ech Really?

     That’s what a surgeon says:

     First, let’s be clear. The premise that surgeon’s wearing masks serve as evidence that “masks must work to prevent viral transmission” is a logical fallacy that I would classify as an argument of false equivalence, or comparing “apples to oranges.”Although surgeons do wear masks to prevent their respiratory droplets from contaminating the surgical field and the exposed internal tissues of our surgical patients, that is about as far as the analogy extends.

     https://bsnews.info/if-masks-dont-work-then-why-do-surgeons-wear-them-a-surgeon-explains/

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2023 05:02:08 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Erik Haugen
     • Vad fan?
     Respiratory droplets is how COVID spreads... the viruses do not float freely in the air LOL
   • Embed this notice
     beard :meru_dab: (beardalaxy@gameliberty.club)'s status on Saturday, 06-May-2023 09:22:28 JST beard :meru_dab:

     in reply to

     @feld this just reminded me that a zombie game called h1z1 came out like right after the h1n1 incident lmao, can you imagine someone making a "coZid-19" game? XD

     feld likes this.