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1. Embed this notice
   R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 02:25:12 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

   • fu
   • Topher 🌱🐧💚

   @fu @topher

   Good points, although that only confirms my sad suspicion that smartphones have ruined computing. :'(

   • Embed this notice
     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 08:09:41 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     ? File Edit View Special

     You can have my menubars when you pry them out of my cold, dead hands ?

     #NoHamburgerMenuUnlessiWantToEatAHamburgerThankYou

   • Embed this notice
     Topher 🌱🐧💚 (topher@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 08:11:03 JST Topher 🌱🐧💚

     in reply to

     @RL_Dane

     You can still have this a few ways.

     xfce4-panel with xfce4-appmenu-plugin, in essentially any DE of your choice

     Including GNOME btw. Just because they have their crippled panel doesn't mean you can't write an extension (or ask me for mine) that just hides that nonsense, and position xfce4-panel in its place

     KDE has it also but KDE is just a bit too...KDE for me.

     Or, there's Fildem, which is nice but can be super wonky at times with checkbox/radio items within menus.

   • Embed this notice
     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:50:05 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     • Topher 🌱🐧💚

     @topher

     I missed the unity years, as I was on the Mac during that time. Is it good?

   • Embed this notice
     Topher 🌱🐧💚 (topher@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:50:06 JST Topher 🌱🐧💚

     in reply to

     @RL_Dane

     Not to forget, there's Unity also! Rudra Saraswat's resurrection is now an official Ubuntu flavour.

   • Embed this notice
     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:51:53 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     • Topher 🌱🐧💚

     @topher

     Actually, I'm not hung up on global vs per-window menus. Global menus do save a bit of space, but there's more mouse travel required, and it only works on one framework (GTK or QT, depending on the DE).

     I think the debate (if there is one) is a touch silly, as the early Macintosh was a unitasking system, so there was no point in even considering drawing the menubar on the windows themselves.

     I don't have a preference between the two.

   • Embed this notice
     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 02:25:10 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     • fu
     • Topher 🌱🐧💚

     @topher @fu

     It's so sad.
     I'm imagining what smartphones could be like today if the iToy never happened.
     Physical buttons, extensive and flexible mobile OSes, non-stupefied userbase.
     And most of all, no destruction of desktop UIs to make it look like a 23" iFad.

     #ERMAGHERD.

   • Embed this notice
     Topher 🌱🐧💚 (topher@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 02:25:11 JST Topher 🌱🐧💚

     in reply to

     • fu

     @RL_Dane @fu

     The scariest part is how blindly oblivious the designers pushing this are to the needs and motivation of the specific userbase who are still using traditional desktop.

     Yeah, we have a smartphone on us - and yet are deliberately going to a desktop machine where we can actually see what we're doing on larger than a bloody 1.7mm screen and interact with it with proper HID devices and find features and menus that are now buried behind swipes and mystery icons and confusion.

   • Embed this notice
     Topher 🌱🐧💚 (topher@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 02:25:11 JST Topher 🌱🐧💚

     in reply to

     • fu

     @RL_Dane @fu

     Why it's suddenly necessary to involve arcane swipe gestures and round after round of "guess the mystery icon" to find a simple feature that has always been easily located behind the same menu in the same spot for the past 20+ years - on a desktop! - is absolutely beyond my capacity to understand.

   • Embed this notice
     Topher 🌱🐧💚 (topher@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 02:25:12 JST Topher 🌱🐧💚

     in reply to

     • fu

     @RL_Dane @fu

     It was multitouch. As soon as multitouch handheld devices happened, and we no longer had physical keys (even to dial a phone number), and UI design all around started shifting towards convergent touch-oriented interfaces hence CSD and all this nightmarish hellscape nonsense, that was the beginning of the end.

     The saddest part is that CSD isn't even *always* bad. There are specific situations where it's even helpful. But decimating desktop metaphor (because phones!) was a mistake.