Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 12:48:42 JST Alex Gleason

   Is it hateful and bigoted to believe Linux is the best operating system?

   • Embed this notice
     orekix@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 13:30:28 JST orekix

     in reply to
     @alex yes, it's that simple, you're a fascist
     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Björn Lindström (bkhl@social.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 14:24:40 JST Björn Lindström

     in reply to

     @alex it's literal violence against disabled people that need some specific Mac program plus it makes you a bro.

     Alex Gleason likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     MattZ (colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 16:51:46 JST MattZ

     in reply to
     @alex No but it's not an operating system
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 16:52:11 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • swagchen
     @s https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.html
   • Embed this notice
     swagchen (s@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 16:52:13 JST swagchen

     in reply to
     @alex 1. I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux,
     is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux.
     Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
     of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell
     utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
     
     Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day,
     without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU
     which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are
     not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
     
     There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a
     part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system
     that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run.
     The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
     it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is
     normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system
     is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux"
     distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
     
     
     2. why are you hateful and bigoted to me? i don't know what i did
   • Embed this notice
     bronze (bronze@pl.kitsunemimi.club)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 18:29:54 JST bronze

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • Lina Inver?e
     • 御園はくい
     • swagchen
     @lina @Suiseiseki @s @hakui GNU? whats that? :blobfoxthinksmart:
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 18:29:54 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • bronze
     @bronze Let me fix that for you.
     
     >The smile on the mans face grows.
     >Alpine is BusyBox/Linux, so you use BusyBox+Linux.
     >The fact that it doesn't have GNU makes it even more important to note that it lacks the features that you would expect from an OS.
     
     >One example is how it's common to install GNU bash on Alpine, as BusyBox's shell sucks.
     >Maybe just GNU bash isn't enough to call it GNU/Linux, but clearly the next step is to install all the GNU software you need to have a usable computer.
     
     >With a gasp, the proprietary breath was ejected from my body.
     >I had been freed from the grasp of proprietary software and I finally saw freedom.
   • Embed this notice
     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 18:29:56 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • 御園はくい
     • swagchen
     @hakui @Suiseiseki @s stupid copypasta noobs its called a computer
   • Embed this notice
     御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 18:29:57 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • swagchen
     @s @Suiseiseki No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.
     
     Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.
     
     One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?
     
     (An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.
     
     Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.
     
     You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.
     
     Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?
     
     If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:
     
     Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag.
     
     Thanks for listening.
   • Embed this notice
     swagchen (s@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2023 18:29:58 JST swagchen

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system but rather
     
     Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.
     
     Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.