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   thatguyoverthere ن (thatguyoverthere@charlestown.social)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:31 JST thatguyoverthere ن

   in reply to

   • iced depresso
   • kroner
   • pixelherodev
   • Ademan
   • Zergling_man
   You act like the alternative to crypto isn't also stored and tracked via software. The vast majority of people are paid by wires. Even if you get a paper check no one is driving a bag of money to the bank from the one where the check is drawn from. Everything is already in code somewhere but you have no way to audit that code, and no choice but to participate in most cases.
   • チャノさん likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:33 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @thatguyoverthere @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner @ademan Put a bit differently:

     Anyone who's ever used a computer in their life probably knows how bad many software engineers are at their jobs.

     As a software engineer, there are exactly zero software engineers I would trust with my life. (There's a fair few that I trust not to, like, stab me? but NOBODY writes perfect code.)

     For most people, if your money disappears, you're basically dead (no food). Why would you trust software with money?

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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:34 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @thatguyoverthere @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner @ademan I don't agree with your premise.

     The government's currency only has as much weight as we give it. They can design a digital system all they want, but if everyone is still using cash, they're not getting rid of it so easily.

     I think communities can find ways to pay lip service to the government without caring about its currency, and remain convinced that putting anything important online is a good way to ensure it ends catastrophically.

   • Embed this notice
     thatguyoverthere ن (thatguyoverthere@charlestown.social)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:35 JST thatguyoverthere ن

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man
     I don't know if that's true. The government employs their own technologists anyway so tech is going to be used to back our money either way. The question is do you want it to be programmable by government who can use it as a weapon to control you or would you rather see government lose their war chest money and need to appeal to their constituency and justify their spending?
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:36 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @thatguyoverthere @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner @ademan Don't get me wrong, I don't think the existing system is *good*.

     I dislike the existing system a *lot*. But letting a bunch of technologists design their ideal world will result in something that's much, much, much worse.

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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:37 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @thatguyoverthere @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner @ademan Quite frankly: between my bank and Ethereum, I trust my bank far, far, far more.

   • Embed this notice
     thatguyoverthere ن (thatguyoverthere@charlestown.social)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:38 JST thatguyoverthere ن

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man
     Instead we can leave it up to the bankers. They're doing a bang up job.
   • Embed this notice
     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:39 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner Or maybe basing a currency off of a distributed Merkle tree is just a stupid idea?

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     Ademan (ademan@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:40 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     lmao, how's the goldman sachs kool aid taste anyway? energy usage in proof of work is related to SECURITY not users, scaling off chain completely decouples this anyway, and is the way forward, improves privacy too.
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:41 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner For a cryptocurrency based on a proof-of-work system to even be usable *as a currency* by >1M people, it would need to consume more electricity than the *entire planet* currently does.

     But sure, this will *save* lives. Definitely.

     (Blah blah proof-of-stake: yes, because a system that *reinforces existing wealth* is bad for people who profit off of fiat :P)

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     Ademan (ademan@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:42 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     how many millions of lives to imperialism are you willing to sacrifice by de-facto defending fiat in the meantime?
   • Embed this notice
     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:43 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner And, for that matter: *why* the distribution of resources is inadequate isn't really important.

     It's not adequate.

     > There are 33 empty properties for each homeless person in the US

     > In the United States, over one-third of all available food goes uneaten through loss or waste

     I'm not defending fiat. It's awful. The problem is, replacing one form of money with another misses the point.

     We need to change how we think about value in a much deeper way.

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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:44 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner > Not being able to create money out of thin air

     The problem with this idea is that it assumes that money *is* real. It's not.

     Money is and always had been purely imaginary. Of *course* the government can create it out of thin air: all money *is* is thin air!

     There's sufficient resources that scarcity of necessities is akin to murder these days.

     We don't need a "good" way of tracking imaginary bullshit numbers, we need to stop tracking bullshit.

   • Embed this notice
     Ademan (ademan@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:45 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     I didn't mention inflation once, let alone hyperinflation, try again. You managed to be wrong about something I didn't even bring up lmao
   • Embed this notice
     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:47 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner

     *Every time* people freak out that "if we cross X threshold, we'll trigger hyperinflation!!", they've been wrong.

     They've been wrong about this for over a century.

     Don't claim that something is a *widely accepted fact* when it's an active source of political dispute.

     This is why mixing math and politics is so terrible: people who are good at math but don't understand how it relates to reality end up believing the stupidest things.

   • Embed this notice
     Ademan (ademan@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:48 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     hard money is not a government, what the fuck are you talking about
     
     > restraining government a bit
     > is this a shadow government?
     
     Not being able to create money out of thin air to fund murderous imperialist escapades is a good thing.
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:49 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Ademan
     • Zergling_man

     @ademan @Zergling_man @icedquinn @kroner If the government is so corrupt that you feel a shadow governance is needed (and, really, that's what a populist currency would actually be), then frankly a currency won't help you.

   • Embed this notice
     Ademan (ademan@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:50 JST Ademan

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     > Crypto: cypherpunks and speculators benefit from early adoption of Bitcoin
     > fiat: giant multinational banks make a profit lending to you money created out of thin air, the military industrial complex funds wars that would cause a domestic rebellion if the costs were felt directly and immediately by taxpayers, and corrupt politicians can fund every kind of graft from the money spigot
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:51 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     @pixelherodev @Zergling_man @kroner more miners doesn't mean more coin comes in to existence. they're all competing for the same mint, which goes down, so the amount of expansion can never pull a Federal Reserve and pull trillions out of its ass twice in a decade.
     
     you can argue about if its fair who gets the newly made money, but the amount of money coming in to the system is already set in stone and unclownable.
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:52 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • Zergling_man

     @icedquinn @Zergling_man @kroner XD

     Not only is it not uninflatable, but cryptocurrency is inherently designed such that the people with most wealth at their inception gain the most wealth over time.

     With a proof-of-stake system, this is pretty obvious: that's the *point*. With proof-of-work, the people with the most wealth (in *any* form) can afford the most expensive mining farms and can burn as much electricity as they want, so their odds of getting mining awards are higher.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:53 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @kroner @pixelherodev The State(s) wants to jihad crypto and insert its shitty fedcoin and local equivalents because crypto tech finally did become untraceable in addition to uninflatable so it needs to go :comfyblush:
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:55 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     • Zergling_man
     @Zergling_man @pixelherodev @kroner
     ring signatures (monero)
     zksnarks (zcash)
     the weird shit that mimblewimble uses (litecoin)
   • Embed this notice
     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:56 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     @pixelherodev @kroner >Monero
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:57 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • Zergling_man

     @Zergling_man @kroner Bitcoin is not anonymous, either. It's *pseudonymous*, which is *not* the same thing.

     There's growing arsenals of tools to deanonymize Bitcoin transactions, and there's been hundreds of arrests to date *as a direct result*.

     The "foundational technology" of all cryptocurrencies I'm aware of, blockchains, are *inherently* impossible to keep truly anonymous, *by design*.

     If the entire list of every transaction ever made is public, and you know *one* end of *one* of them...

   • Embed this notice
     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:48:59 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     @pixelherodev @kroner Not trustworthy, I'll grant.
     It is, however, quite by definition, anonymous. You are conflating anonymity and privacy. Bitcoin is not private, which is why it should be discarded in favour of monero ASAP. From there we can consider integrating features of nano and worldcoin.
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:00 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • Zergling_man

     @Zergling_man @kroner

     X is bad therefore !X is *not* always valid. Sometimes, *every* option is bad. In such a case, "X bad therefore !X" is wrong.

     When it comes to financial systems, that's exactly the case. The banking systems are terrible. Anyone who thinks Bitcoin is the answer either a) doesn't understand Bitcoin or b) has already put money *into* Bitcoin, and is financially dependent upon convincing people that Bitcoin is the answer.

     Bitcoin is not trustworthy or anonymous.

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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:01 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • pixelherodev
     @pixelherodev @kroner At least this isn't the boring, retarded thing again.
     My argument isn't "X bad therefore Y".
     My argument is "X bad therefore !X"; authority bad, bartering stand-in fine, bartering stand-in without authority is...
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     pixelherodev (pixelherodev@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:02 JST pixelherodev

     in reply to

     • kroner
     • Zergling_man

     @Zergling_man @kroner @fluffy@social.handholding.io

     > System X is bad
     > Therefore, use System Y

     This is a terrible argument. Just because one system is bad doesn't mean that your alternative isn't *worse*.

     Also, the entire idea of a currency that doesn't require trust demonstrates a total lack of understanding of people, technology, and money, all at once!

     Well done. That was genuinely *impressive*.

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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:03 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • kroner
     @kroner @fluffy And the internet is a passing fad. Stop with the catch22 shit, please. It is incredibly boring and makes you sound like a retard.
     
     >the artists that do accept crypto usually accept fiat as well...
     Paypal is not a functional system. Also, it is spyware.
     Stripe is not a functional system, it trips bank flags (which are their own problem).
     Patreon is not a functional system, though it's actually not too far away.
     Subscribestar is not a functional system, one of ~3 artists I know using it got some weird flag so their page always shows "our system is unavailable".
     Gumroad is not a functional system, but maybe it could be.
     Pixiv is not a functional system, Australia can't put lewd requests because regulation rubbish, and because Jap coding, it means Australia can't put *any* requests.
     And so on, and so on.
     Some of these systems may be recoverable. But they are ultimately subject to the will of banks, and usually credit cards too, none of which can be trusted.
     チャノさん likes this.
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     kroner (kroner@seal.cafe)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:04 JST kroner

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • Zergling_man
     I don't see groceries becoming available for crypto any time soon, and I don't see how people would buy your surplus for crypto if that's the only medium of exchange you're using. Is there a large untapped market of average joes looking to purchase whatever you're offering for crypto?
     
     It'd be more viable for online goods and services perhaps, but you would be losing out on a lot of potential customers if you only accept crypto as payment and the artists that do accept crypto usually accept fiat as well...
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     kroner (kroner@seal.cafe)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:05 JST kroner

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • Zergling_man
     That's sorta funny because actual BTC holders like to talk up that 1BTC = 1BTC all day but in the end they still use fiat for everything, the actual places you can exchange BTC for something are very limited and the people you exchange the BTC with ultimately convert it to fiat eventually
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:05 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • kroner
     @kroner @fluffy I would like to buy my groceries with crypto.
     I will probably have to move out to a farm and begin offering surplus for crypto to make it happen on this island.
     If I actually had a service or product to offer, I would certainly offer them for crypto. (But I prefer to not charge for software; ideally I'll just release enough cool software that people will want to pay me to make more.)
     As it stands, I am always looking for ways to trade fiat into crypto because I have two places I can spend it, and if I can build up a little nest that I can then knock on, say, artists' commission boxes with "I will give you X right now to do some art for my game", that will be useful.
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     kroner (kroner@seal.cafe)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:06 JST kroner

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • Zergling_man
     Fair point, but it is sorta unreasonable to expect people to mass adopt a crypto "currency" as an actual currency without regulation. And that defeats the point of mass adopting crypto to begin with.
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:06 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • kroner
     @kroner @fluffy It's a perspective problem crossed with a catch 22.
     I offer you my service, the Advisinator 2000, at 1BTC. I will offer it at 1BTC tomorrow, and in five years. Its value never changes.
     
     Investors can fuck off out of our currency, kthxbai.
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     Zergling_man (zergling_man@birds.garden)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:07 JST Zergling_man

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail
     • kroner
     @kroner @fluffy "I won't trust the thing that by definition has no authority until it has an authority".
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     kroner (kroner@seal.cafe)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:08 JST kroner

     in reply to

     • touch fluffy tail

     In order for crypto “currencies” to be acceptable in my book there would need to be a ton of regulation first. Funny how crypto bros tout their latest shitcoin as a currency when 9.99 times out of 10 they’re just treating it as either a pump and dump scheme or a more long term Ponzi Scheme.

     No reasonable person should have to accept being paid in a “currency” that is highly volatile and has the potential to either skyrocket in value or crash into the dumpster overnight

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     touch fluffy tail (fluffy@social.handholding.io)'s status on Friday, 26-Aug-2022 16:49:09 JST touch fluffy tail
     what would it take for cryptocurrencies to be all right in your book