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1. Embed this notice
   Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:15:46 JST Evan Prodromou

   This was a hard poll.

   I am a qualified no.

   Here are my thoughts.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:20:00 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     A classic example would be Mickey Rooney's yellowface role as Mr. Yunioshi in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" (1961).

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I._Y._Yunioshi

     It might be technically possible to excise the Yunioshi scenes from the film and still have something that holds together narratively. It's been a while since I've seen the movie and I can't remember if he's got any crucial plot role.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:20:35 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     Another is the minstrel show scene from "White Christmas" (1954).

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Christmas_(film)

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:23:34 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     But there's some real moral hazard to doing this.

     First, it's letting ourselves have the nice parts of the film without confronting the very bad parts.

     Second, the edited films would have no people of colour whatsoever. There's something dark about that; dealing with racism in media by eliminating everyone except white people.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:26:42 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     I think the better option is to let these "classics" fall into the memory hole of history.

     Blake Edwards, the director of Breakfast at Tiffany's, knew exactly what he was doing in 1961. His masterpiece is tainted. Too bad!

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:30:28 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     I'm "qualified" because we've seen some positive developments in this area in recent years.

     For example, Lizzo removed an ableist slur from her 2022 album based on online criticism. She acknowledged the problem, apologized, corrected it, and learned from it.

     If creators can do something similar when new film and TV comes out, great.

     Streaming media gives us the option of updating contemporary films in real time. That's pretty amazing.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:37:57 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • scmbradley

     @Scmbradley Sorry, I should have said "eliminating all characters except white ones".

   • Embed this notice
     scmbradley (scmbradley@mathstodon.xyz)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:37:58 JST scmbradley

     in reply to

     @evan wait, what? There's no white people in the film anyway? Just because he's pretending to be east Asian, doesn't make him non-White? I sort of see what you mean, but leaving in the yellow face scene isn't a win for representation...

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:38:42 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Fifi Lamoura

     @fifilamoura agreed!

   • Embed this notice
     Fifi Lamoura (fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:38:43 JST Fifi Lamoura

     in reply to

     @evan "There's something dark about that; dealing with racism in media by eliminating everyone except white people."

     This is also just a lot of TV made about idealized White people back in the day so it would also leave some of the most erasing and racist media on the "ok" shelf. White supremacy is also TV shows and movies that only show White people (as you are getting at!).

   • Embed this notice
     Baba & Yoyo (simmagolda@mas.to)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:40:18 JST Baba & Yoyo

     in reply to

     @evan
     If we were to draw a line for sexism. How many would be discarded totally? (All?) They can be considered historical references, but their value as art will be lowered.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:40:18 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Baba & Yoyo

     @simmagolda a lot! Also, homophobic, transphobic, ableist. There's a lot of bullshit in old media (and new).

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:42:51 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • …might work for coffee…

     @mwfc so, there's a big difference between a piece being available for review in libraries and archives, and having it featured in a streaming service.

   • Embed this notice
     …might work for coffee… (mwfc@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:42:53 JST …might work for coffee…

     in reply to

     @evan
     The plus side is, by letting it fall out of grace somewhat, is that it fosters new current works. With current standards.

     We should not forget, that certain stuff in history can only be explained by the climate in society back then. The cultural works are an important part of this.

     Think about the MASH discussions. Which war to pick, having mandatory ER time per episode etc pp. But again, some other stuff can only be understood cross generation if you know their culture.

   • Embed this notice
     …might work for coffee… (mwfc@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 01:42:54 JST …might work for coffee…

     in reply to

     @evan
     I disagree with this "fall into the memory hole of history".
     It creates a "winner writes history" timeline, and alas US is projecting a lot of culture to the world.

     Schindlers List and others are not even possible in this context, or you introduce a thin line pushing it arbitrarily.
     Furthermore think about the open allowed hate speech in USA that is banned in Germany due holocaust denial. All no problem according to US norms.

     I am much more for putting it into context.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 04:29:09 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Jake

     @gogobonobo There is!

   • Embed this notice
     Jake (gogobonobo@pdx.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 04:29:10 JST Jake

     in reply to

     @evan Unless there is *also* a minstrel show scene in “White Christmas” (which wouldn’t surprise me but I don’t remember it), my guess is that you were referring to “Holiday Inn” (see the “Legacy” section): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_(film)

     That’s the first movie that has the song “White Christmas” in it.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 07:53:05 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Rui Seabra

     @RuiSeabra I'm OK with that! I think a world where we all forget "Breakfast at Tiffany's" is fine. We forget most media.

   • Embed this notice
     Rui Seabra (ruiseabra@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Jan-2023 07:53:06 JST Rui Seabra

     in reply to

     @evan
     You know what you loose with that reasoning? Memory. You know what you're condemned to when you forget the errors of the past? Yeah... I can't subscribe to those 1984-style revisionisms, because they just pave the road to hell.