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Keen: They all get the idea of labor and capital producing output and the production function if they go that detailed in first year. But fundamentally, they get taught the whole idea that we get paid our factor products. And that actually ideologically is very reinforcing for a CEO, because it says, "My enormous weight per salary, is because of my huge contribution to production." So it ends up having an ideological role, and that blinds them to the physical reality that you simply don't have that impact on production. If you come down to the nuts and bolts of it, it's energy which is producing the output and you are getting a share of it, an overblown share given your system and the power structure of capitalism. Hagens: So if we truly defined energy correctly in the production function, that giant gift from nature might not all be funneled to the top the way it is now. Keen: And that, of course, leads to one of the reasons why people continue being energy blind because it enables them to be blind to their outsized share of the wealth of the civilization that goes their way.