@freemo

clearly you are not interested in what I have to say (or what you say)
done here

@freemo

pregnancy is not a disease
abortion is not disease treatment (although it can be)
it is a personal choice based on factors that the pregnant person is dealing with, whether medical or otherwise

@freemo

again, outside the purview of law

@freemo

I most certainly do not support states that outlaw abortion in any way -- this should not be a matter of law

Late term, any term, it ought to be up to the potential mother
that doesn't mean I support forcing anyone to perform anything

@freemo

of course the dr. must agree -- we can't be forcing medical professionals to do what they believe wrong -- but that one dr. is far from the only option, maybe even in the same facility
or the patient can find other kinds of healthcare than mainstream
I've even heard of self-surgery

and there are all kinds of medical procedures done for reasons other than medical need

@freemo
apparently you are making major assumptions and not actually understanding what I have been saying

have you read the posts on the links I gave you? if what you want is to know my positions, read them

@freemo

no, the doctor only gets that doctor's say -- the final say is when the patient gets their way or decides on some other option

@freemo

because I suggested dialog to a mutually satisfactory conclusion, or, obviously these two parties can't meet and another solution will be found if the person is sufficiently motivated
I am not talking about arbitrary laws, but actual possibilities
often a dr. is more concerned with liability than the patient's needs

@freemo

it is not either/or

@freemo

yes, it did

@freemo

there are other professionals, and the black market -- it's not an either/or if the person is strongly motivated

@freemo

I am ok with people deciding what they want and telling the people they need to help them with that, and said helpers having the autonomy to agree or explain why not, enter into dialog to figure out what would work for all concerned.

@freemo

we ought to be giving people that bodily autonomy -- in my experience, doctors are not gods, judges, juries or very good at listening to their clients' concerns or facts

@freemo

complications can occur at any time -- or get worse
or maybe everyone can be saved if the mother goes on bed rest for the rest of the pregnancy -- so what does she do about other obligations? how is she to pay for this complicated pregnancy while unable to work?
it's all about life or death, right?
how about when the baby will have serious health issues? The potential mother is the person who makes these choices for herself and progeny -- let her have the autonomy

@freemo

the point is abortion is not the point -- it is the subjugation of women, which is evil and a majorly important issue

and most late term abortions are to save the life or health of the mother when a pregnancy has gone wrong -- so illegal to save women's lives

people don't actively seek out medical procedures without real motivation

here's a short story that may help
https://bdelectablemnts.runboard.com/t2681

@freemo

death is the natural result of life
no one is guaranteed anything
hopefully we learn to avoid the stupidity of activities that are both bad for us and others, but people tend toward stupidity when not sufficiently motivated to think
abortion is neither the problem nor the important issue

@freemo

and the fictional mom? Have we honestly delved her reasons? Is she ok with this adoption? Why legally? The law has no place in these personal matters (even if there are laws that do)
How about we have a fictional conversation with those involved and see where we are?

@freemo

why are you making assumptions about fictional women?
if this pregnant person is indeed aborting this fetus for purely arbitrary reasons -- not because she would be in danger -- then, of course she is doing right by her not to be born child by not giving them both miserable lives

@freemo @JuliusGoat

ideally, morality is about being able to live peacefully with others

@freemo @JuliusGoat

law as a social code ought not be based on some possibly temporary or local idea of morality, but on the common understandings of the people affected from all perspectives