@badnetmask +1 at the "being surprised" thing. We used OpenStack at work ca 2012-2017 and the stewardship felt worse and worse and the thing become worse. I have heard *some* voices that it became better again later, but my goodwill had been burnt forever - unless you had a whole team dedicated to just doing OpenStack (and migrating major versions every 6 or 12 months, madness) - it was more work than it was worth it. But maybe I am being unfair and they got it together... @mcfly @jay