@Escoffier @Snidely_Whiplash @jesuspilled > I'm not anti-Church i'm anti modern churches that i believe have been corrupted and have failed.

And I agree. Many have. But not all, and you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We also disagree about the nature and degree of what they still have right. And since we're talking the sacraments Christ himself commanded that renders your position untenable for me.