@bmacDonald94 I learned long ago to be wary of telling people anything about zen or related topics, because so many of us already know it all, unlearned it all, re-learned it, were reincarnated and spun on the karmic wheel again and again. My contact with such thoughts neither begins nor ends with Pirsig. Most recently I'm reading Trungpa. https://terebess.hu/english/tao.html