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@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @whiteman_ Liberians Libertarians are a special case where a lot of them have a breaking point and recognize that the problem of evil is unsolvable without unified force and the voluntarist ideal is incapable of accomplishing that. Eventually you end up with Pete Quinones type post libertarians who recognize real politik and the need for pragmatism over ideology. I've seen this happen in my friend group several times to varying degrees. To be more succint, MARs are a real thing (Middle American Radicals) and they generally lean libertarian from resignation and distrust of government meddling, but they support unions and social security and functional government solutions albeit with heavy skepticism.