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@lizzard Yep, an English “we” always include the listener.

It's why sometimes a discussion is derailed because people will start leaving comments like, “not all/everyone” even though the context was clear how the speaker used “we”.

English is far too simple. Well, after all, according to some sources, English was a “peasant language”. Maybe that's why there are so many conflicts, English is so prone to being misunderstood. ^^;;

But most, if not all, non-English languages, there are separate words for two context usage. And if not separate words, there's a clear understanding that a word can have two different context depending on how it was used.

Sadly, in English, “we”/“us” is often understood as including the listener and everyone else.

So, to avoid being misunderstood, you have to include clarification, which can distract the reader (and make things longer than necessary).