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@admitsWrongIfProven

What is your definition of a minimal system to experience suffering?

this is already back to where I started. We cant define exactly when suffering, consciousness, or thought begins. We dont have the ability to test for it.

The only thing we know is it requires a brain, and we therefore know it is garunteed not to be possible before 10weeks, and that sometime between 10 weeks and infinity those properties develop.

Therefore 10 weeks is the natural line… Now if you want to move it beyond 10 weeks it is on you to prove that suffering and consciousness is not possible before the new time period you propose.

And while you cant ask a child if it wants to be born,t hat doesnt matter. Our laws are such that murdering something is wrong whether it wants to be murdered or not. But obviously doubly so if you assume and the thing you kill gave no indication it wanted to die.